Our Study Suggests Objective Reality Doesn't Exist

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just going off the subject: Our Study Suggests Objective Reality Doesn't Exist

I say, Finally! And this is like saying, 'There really is no matter.'

"There are many objects and only one subject."
"...objective reality is not only not what we think of it,
but is integrally tied to consciousness."
That's right!! Known this since, I dunno, '73 or 74? I have exp this many times, ha, no drugs!

I'm coming to the party late, but better late than never.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Depends on how one defines afterlife, how one identifies one's self and whether one desires proof outside of experience (non-scientific).

But that wasn't the point of Dean's double-slit experiment. The point was to determine if the measurement problem in QM was tied to conscious observation and not just observation by lab instrumentation. His findings indicate the prior but that still leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Baby steps. No one's going to come up with the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything any time soon, unless it's 42. LOL!

Lol,you've lost me.I haven't got a scientific cell in my body I think we are on different paths here.I'm more interested in the Afterlife,so I thought you were out to disprove it.lol.Anyway,sorry for the abrupt post at the beginning of the thread,I,m so convinced here is an afterlife of some sort,I get overprotective

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Lol,you've lost me.I haven't got a scientific cell in my body I think we are on different paths here.I'm more interested in the Afterlife,so I thought you were out to disprove it.lol.Anyway,sorry for the abrupt post at the beginning of the thread,I,m so convinced here is an afterlife of some sort,I get overprotective

No worries, I'm not offended. I don't see any inherent conflict between religion/spirituality and science. There are more than a few physicist who don't either because of the weirdness one finds the further one drills down into reality, looking at the smallest identifiable constituents of matter. In some ways they behave very subjectively, not objectively.

Check out SAND (Science and Non-Duality) on YouTube. Lots of interesting videos on consciousness with presentations by leaders in the fields of physics, neuroscience, psychology, philosophy of mind and other related fields of scientific inquiry.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

No worries, I'm not offended. I don't see any inherent conflict between religion/spirituality and science. There are more than a few physicist who don't either because of the weirdness one finds the further one drills down into reality, looking at the smallest identifiable constituents of matter. In some ways they behave very subjectively, not objectively.

Check out SAND (Science and Non-Duality) on YouTube. Lots of interesting videos on consciousness with presentations by leaders in the fields of physics, neuroscience, psychology, philosophy of mind and other related fields of scientific inquiry.

Will do,thank's

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Will do,thank's

You'll have to dig a bit for the more scientific discussions because there's also a lot of spiritual presentations. It covers the spectrum.

https://www.youtube.com/user/science...duality/videos

Then there's "The Science of Consciousness Conference" which is geared more towards science.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoN...xTZI-ZA/videos

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

i'm lost,so is there an afterlife or not?

If you mean afterlife, like in a heaven and hell. The answer is no. But if you believe in heaven and hell, heaven and hell will be real for/to you in the form of a thought form in the astral reality, astral plane, astral world or whatever you want to call it . People create for their own personal benefit everything that has to do with the paranormal, including Angels, demons, spirits and God himself etc etc in the astral plane. The purpose of the astral plane is to process and manifest our desires through the law of attraction.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

You keep stating that but it's not the technical view represented by non-duality. There are many objects and only one subject. Stripping away objective reality does not reveal another objective reality but the One Subject. That Subject cannot be named or described. It just is and with no limit in form, space and time. Formless. Boundless. Timeless. Indescribable. Vast. Not an object. Objects are limited by form, space and time. That's non-duality vs. duality.

Furthermore it's impossible for the physical body-mind to be free from emotions, feelings and beliefs. Enlightenment is realizing the true Self is not that but the source (cause) of all those objects (effects), and a reorientation from identification with the small self (body-mind) to the true Self (awareness). Then emotions, feelings, beliefs, whatever experience hold no sorrow for the true Self.

Objectivity is duality. Objective reality is duality. Stripping away one objective reality for another objective reality is replacing one duality with another duality.

EDIT: For a better understanding this is the first of three videos (Realizing Non-Duality parts 1, 2 & 3) by Swami Sarvapriyananda. He's an Advaita Vedantist and they are strict non-dualists. They are in a playlist and will roll over to the next. It'll take 3.5 hours to get through all three.

https://youtu.be/o-RFz56gb9E?list=PL...yrF2rGcUqIb4OF

Swami Sarvapriyananda is now at Vedanta Society of New York and there a lots of his videos here.

https://www.youtube.com/user/vedantany1894/videos

Good accompaniments for his talks are "The Ten Principal Upanishads" and the "Bhagavad Gita". He references them a lot, if not in these talks then in many others.

Lastly this is from the Vedanta Society of California and lays out the four paths to realization & enlightenment.


https://vedanta.org/yoga-spiritual-practice/

What does duality and non-duality mean to you? To me, duality means there is an opposite and the root cause of duality is conditional love-I either love/like this or that or I hate/dislike this or that. Sure there is duality in nature like, male and female but duality in nature is not limiting people spiritually, except for those who are obsessed/addicted to sex. Mental duality is what is limiting people spiritually.

I do not understand why you keep calling the not so obvious objective reality an object when it is a perception, not an object. Will it help if I used the term ultimate or absolute reality, instead of not so obvious objective reality? Objective has nothing whatsoever to do with objects. Here is the definition of objective in the dictionary:

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/objective

Originally Posted by MikeS80

What does duality and non-duality mean to you? To me, duality means there is an opposite and the root cause of duality is conditional love-I either love/like this or that or I hate/dislike this or that. Sure there is duality in nature like, male and female but duality in nature is not limiting people spiritually, except for those who are obsessed/addicted to sex. Mental duality is what is limiting people spiritually.

I do not understand why you keep calling the not so obvious objective reality an object when it is a perception, not an object. Will it help if I used the term ultimate or absolute reality, instead of not so obvious objective reality? Objective has nothing whatsoever to do with objects. Here is the definition of objective in the dictionary:

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/objective

Duality - Restricted in form, space or time.

Examples: Universe, galaxy, solar system, star, planet, continent, ocean, animal, human, thought, emotion, feeling. All objects.

Non-duality - Not restricted in form, space or time.

Example: Awareness, Source, Unity, Divine, God. One subject.

Non-duality is cause and duality is effect.

I'm using the concepts and definitions developed over thousands of years of spiritual exploration and study in India, culminating in The Ten Principal Upanishads. A similar concept is being explored by the cutting edge of science. That's the point of the article in my original post. Quantum Mechanics. The "Hard Problem" of consciousness.

In the context being discussed in relation to reality this is the correct definition for "objective".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective

2a: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind
objective reality

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Duality - Restricted in form, space or time.

Examples: Universe, galaxy, solar system, star, planet, continent, ocean, animal, human, thought, emotion, feeling. All objects.

Non-duality - Not restricted in form, space or time.

Example: Awareness, Source, Unity, Divine, God. One subject.

Non-duality is cause and duality is effect.

I'm using the concepts and definitions developed over thousands of years of spiritual exploration and study in India, culminating in The Ten Principal Upanishads. A similar concept is being explored by the cutting edge of science. That's the point of the article in my original post. Quantum Mechanics. The "Hard Problem" of consciousness.

In the context being discussed in relation to reality this is the correct definition for "objective".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective

2a: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind
objective reality

For all we know, we could already be inside of, thus a part of consciousness, awareness, Source, Unity, Divine, God ect and what we perceive is what we get. Maybe, just maybe the not so obvious objective reality or Brahman or heaven is not a place we go to after we die, Brahman/heaven is in the right here in now in the present moment. Just because you do not perceive something, does not mean it is not there. Subjective reality that is based on mental duality thoughts (from the ego), fear, emotions, beliefs, feelings etc etc is the 'matrix', not the phyiscal universe.

What is time--the hour, the day, the week, the year? Time is man made, time is the measurement/movement of the earth rotating, nothing more, nothing less. Thus, time is an illusion. What are the opposites or dual to the examples of duality you gave?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dual

Definition of dual
1of grammatical number : denoting reference to two
a dual pronoun
2a: consisting of two parts or elements or having two like parts : DOUBLE
families with dual incomes
held dual citizenship in France and the U.S.
a dual function
a dual exhaust system
b: having a double character or nature

I do not have a problem with the definition of objective you quoted, that definition fits both the obvious objective reality and the not so obvious objective reality.

2a: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind

Mike,

If you're interested in spiritual non-duality why not research what the authoritative sources say about it instead of trying to devise your own version, because I'm not making this up but only describing it how they do and have done so going back to the Vedas which are from around 2500 B.C.

I'm also not making up the title of the RCS article either. It's saying objective reality doesn't exist, not this objective reality doesn't exist. That means no objective reality exists, leaving only subjective reality. This study is by Alessandro Fedrizzi, Professor of Quantum Physics, Heriot-Watt University and Massimiliano Proietti, PhD Candidate of Quantum Physics, Heriot-Watt University.

That's exactly what the strict non-dualistic Vedantists say. Many objects in our subjective reality are effects (illusions) of the One cause (Brahman). Furthermore Brahman is awareness which means at our deepest core of being we are all Brahman. In fact everything is. The superficial aspects of everything are just appearances (forms, effects) in the field of awareness (Brahman, cause).

I thought I posted a link to Dean Radin's presentation at TCS but I didn't. Here it is and it's saying the same thing as the RCS article.

https://youtu.be/nRSBaq3vAeY

But seriously, if you want to understand spiritual non-duality spend some time digging through the hundreds upon hundreds of hours of video on Vedanta NY's YouTube channel, because you're really taking issue with their concepts and definitions, not mine. I'm simply repeating their message and isn't it best to go to the source?

Aside from the links above on "Realizing Non-Duality" here's another from the same swami.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5edAZTeEH7w