Bringing Buddha to Buddhism

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

'Emotions are a agitated mind state or disturbance caused by strong feelings about somebody or something. There need be no preference as to whether they are positive or negative as they are related to as just mind states: as ordinary or higher states of mind, that is, just mental events to be noted without seeing them as significant in any way.

Without judging or evaluating them, emotions are monitored throughout the day by labeling or mentally noting them. This helps to develop a more non-reactive awareness toward the emotion, without the tendency to identify with them or play back into the associated story. This practice helps one to relate to emotions more dispassionately while at the same time revealing the transitory nature of mental events.

The clarity now that one has in relating to the emotion can then be taken a step further by tuning into the underlying feeling tone that is associated with an emotion, such as unpleasant feeling. In this way the feeling quality itself is highlighted, thus allowing for the primary feeling to be investigated as it has become distinct from the emotional content.'



Insight Meditation Online....

That is a very good teaching..

Thank you Sky for sharing it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

That is a very good teaching..

Thank you Sky for sharing it.

Glad you enjoyed it

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

'Emotions are a agitated mind state or disturbance caused by strong feelings about somebody or something. There need be no preference as to whether they are positive or negative as they are related to as just mind states: as ordinary or higher states of mind, that is, just mental events to be noted without seeing them as significant in any way.

Without judging or evaluating them, emotions are monitored throughout the day by labeling or mentally noting them. This helps to develop a more non-reactive awareness toward the emotion, without the tendency to identify with them or play back into the associated story. This practice helps one to relate to emotions more dispassionately while at the same time revealing the transitory nature of mental events.

The clarity now that one has in relating to the emotion can then be taken a step further by tuning into the underlying feeling tone that is associated with an emotion, such as unpleasant feeling. In this way the feeling quality itself is highlighted, thus allowing for the primary feeling to be investigated as it has become distinct from the emotional content.'



Insight Meditation Online....

Very succinctly put. In the sense of this thread, bringing Buddha to Buddhism, it's the rather simple yet perhaps difficult matter of putting it into practice throughout this conversation.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Silver

I thank you...while his post was informative and interesting (very much so), I'd caution us all not to throw the Buddha baby out with the bathwater. For us modern day folk to bring others closer to truly understanding the Buddha and Buddhism, we shouldn't scare them away by becoming overly serious. I'm no scholar, but it's become very important to me and my life. IYKWIM.
(Heya Jonesy)

Hi Silver. It's great to see you. It is great to see people's faces i don't see much on Buddhist sections like Squatch, Mulyo - I want the place to feel welcoming and attractive to people, so it is very rewarding and uplifting for me to see a more diverse group of participants emerging. If I may express a slight negativity, I do not want it to be 'scary' as you allude to. I am doing all I can to bring this to reality, and this requires a great deal of self awarenss on my part, because I'm just a little person who is prone to going stray into the egomanic natures. In this sense, the knowledge isn't all the stuff we may know, but the perpetual knowing of oneself. In this way something such as self awareness isn't an exclusive Buddhist concept of knowledge, but a principle which is understandable to anyone.

I also had an idea while reading Sky's quote from insightmeditiation. The short passage went in a kind of direction, but not from here to there, not from not knowing to knowing, but from the gross to the subtle. I think this could be be helpful to keep in mind as to what we are doing here as well.

Cheers, and as always, may you be happy.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Gem

Hi Silver. It's great to see you. It is great to see people's faces i don't see much on Buddhist sections like Squatch, Mulyo - I want the place to feel welcoming and attractive to people, so it is very rewarding and uplifting for me to see a more diverse group of participants emerging. If I may express a slight negativity, I do not want it to be 'scary' as you allude to. I am doing all I can to bring this to reality, and this requires a great deal of self awarenss on my part, because I'm just a little person who is prone to going stray into the egomanic natures. In this sense, the knowledge isn't all the stuff we may know, but the perpetual knowing of oneself. In this way something such as self awareness isn't an exclusive Buddhist concept of knowledge, but a principle which is understandable to anyone.

I also had an idea while reading Sky's quote from insightmeditiation. The short passage went in a kind of direction, but not from here to there, not from not knowing to knowing, but from the gross to the subtle. I think this could be be helpful to keep in mind as to what we are doing here as well.

Cheers, and and as always, may you be happy.

Hiya Gem. I was pleasantly surprised to see Squatchit pop in and get active in a Buddhist thread. What I was referring to wasn't you or your op or thread - I was referring to Jonesy's post only. I felt that it may not be too serious or deep into it for those who have just gotten their tootsies wet., but could scare off a true beginner.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Silver

Hiya Gem. I was pleasantly surprised to see Squatchit pop in and get active in a Buddhist thread. What I was referring to wasn't you or your op or thread - I was referring to Jonesy's post only. I felt that it may not be too serious or deep into it for those who have just gotten their tootsies wet., but could scare off a true beginner.

I personally find it frightening, and I don't regard myself as a beginner, but that said, I regard everyone, be they new or such an old hand, with the same unconditional high regard, and just because I lived the life and undertook the more formal practice, that doesn't position me as some sort of expert. Maybe I could say, "when I woke up this morning, I woke up brand new," and make a cool blues song out of it.

From my own personal perspective, it is important to me, and I think generally important, that Buddhism is represented in the right way, with loving kindness. For a couple of months I have been trying to bring a change so that the place starts to shine with, what, the spiritual light, or whatever that vibe is in the large meditation halls.

I think we all know how to go about producing good vibrations - and may that begin to resonate throughout this space and affect greater happiness in all who visit here.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Gem

I personally find it frightening, and I don't regard myself as a beginner, but that said, I regard everyone, be they new or such an old hand, with the same unconditional high regard, and just because I lived the life and undertook the more formal practice, that doesn't position me as some sort of expert. Maybe I could say, "when I woke up this morning, I woke up brand new," and make a cool blues song out of it.

From my own personal perspective, it is important to me, and I think generally important, that Buddhism is represented in the right way, with loving kindness. For a couple of months I have been trying to bring a change so that the place starts to shine with, what, the spiritual light, or whatever that vibe is in the large meditation halls.

I think we all know how to go about producing good vibrations - and may that begin to resonate throughout this space and affect greater happiness in all who visit here.

All true and nicely put and I'd love to hear your future cool blues song.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

It is primarily about mindfulness what you mention.
And there are different views among buddhists. One view is that of bare attention which seems to be your view and another view holds that categorizing is necessary in order to attain the ripening effect to be attained.
Since I am not into mindfulness I am just philosophically interested. And from my perspective bare attention does not make any sense because either you have a goal or not but if you don't have a goal why practice mindfulness at all? If there is a purpose of practicing mindfulness then there has to be categorizing of what appears.
Maybe your concept of 'judgement' is a mix with 'being emotionally affected'. From my perspective the concept of 'judgement' merely means 'categorizing objects': 'it is this (but not that)'. The best way to not be emotionally affected while being mindful is to see the emptiness of inherent existence of all objects appearing (sense objects, emotions, thoughts etc.), i.e. to integrate insight into emptiness and mindfulness.


That is ambivalent advice because it could be understood as 'thoughts are bad/wrong and have to be stopped'. But no, thoughts are perfectly ok. A state of 'no thought' can easily become a state of stupidity.

(Giggles at bolded)

I thought I'd just jump in, not meaning to interrupt you and Mulyo, and maybe first mention that Sky's quoted passage seems to be close to what you say. I think identifying and labeling or not identifying and labeling might be a an 'either/or', but the realisation that emotional states are transitory enables a quieter attitude of 'this will pass'. One of the best saying I've heard went: "The good news is, this will pass, and the bad news is, this will pass". The realisation 'this will pass' is an example of insight revealing the 'nature of things', and apart from philosophical conjectures and conclusions, the conscious and intelligent being deepens in wisdom through these more directly witnessed or realised 'natures'. In this sense Buddhism is both a philosophy and a practice. By practice I don't mean sitting in the corner to meditate per-se, but something more directly pertaining to being conscious and aware.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

(Giggles at bolded)

I thought I'd just jump in, not meaning to interrupt you and Mulyo, ...

No problem. I feel that a thread is for mutual inspiration. An exchange of words.

Originally Posted by Gem

In this sense Buddhism is both a philosophy and a practice. By practice I don't mean sitting in the corner to meditate per-se, but something more directly pertaining to being conscious and aware.

yes my understanding of 'philosophy' actually includes practice in the sense of applying the view of the philosophy to everyday life.
As far as madhyamaka philosophy is concerned analytical meditation actually is a necessary feature of it, i.e. what the philosophy says has to be certified by first-hand experience.

Originally Posted by Gem

I think identifying and labeling or not identifying and labeling might be a an 'either/or', but the realisation that emotional states are transitory enables a quieter attitude of 'this will pass'. One of the best saying I've heard went: "The good news is, this will pass, and the bad news is, this will pass". The realisation 'this will pass' is an example of insight revealing the 'nature of things', and apart from philosophical conjectures and conclusions, the conscious and intelligent being deepens in wisdom through these more directly witnessed or realised 'natures'.

The realization of the 'nature of things' is where I prefer a bit more depth that merely 'impermanent'. That is where philosophical analysis comes in.

Originally Posted by Gem

and maybe first mention that Sky's quoted passage seems to be close to what you say.

Certainly. Sky words exhibit even the same logical error as my words do.
Where?
Here:

Originally Posted by sky123

Without judging or evaluating them, emotions are monitored throughout the day by labeling or mentally noting them. This helps to develop a more non-reactive awareness toward the emotion, without the tendency to identify with them or play back into the associated story. This practice helps one to relate to emotions more dispassionately while at the same time revealing the transitory nature of mental events.

The clarity now that one has in relating to the emotion can then be taken a step further ...

Because if one monitores emotions then one distances oneself naturally from what one monitores and emotions do lose their characteristic nature. Their characteristic nature is that without mindfulness they cause spontaneous self identification with themselves upon arising. But if one monitores/is mindful then what is monitored actually is other than what is called 'emotions'.

I said:

Originally Posted by Ground

The best way to not be emotionally affected while being mindful is to see the emptiness of inherent existence of all objects appearing (sense objects, emotions, thoughts etc.), i.e. to integrate insight into emptiness and mindfulness.

But this is equally illogical as far as emotions are concerned because if emotions are recognized as being empty upon arising they dissolve before becoming full-fledged emotions. So actually what one observes is just a kind of impulse that is known to have the potential to become an emotion but does not become one.

When sky says

Originally Posted by sky123

'Emotions are a agitated mind state or disturbance caused by strong feelings about somebody or something.

then that corresponds to my expression 'The best way to not be emotionally affected ...' because here it is the seeing of 'somebody or something' being empty that actually totally blocks the arising of emotions.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Ground

And there are different views among buddhists. One view is that of bare attention which seems to be your view and another view holds that categorizing is necessary in order to attain the ripening effect to be attained.

From what tradition said that categorizing is necessary in order to attain the ripening effect to be attained? Source please...

Originally Posted by Ground

Since I am not into mindfulness I am just philosophically interested.

Since you just philosophically interested, than you will keep philosophize. I think it's better if I resign from this talks.

Originally Posted by Ground

And from my perspective bare attention does not make any sense because either you have a goal or not but if you don't have a goal why practice mindfulness at all? If there is a purpose of practicing mindfulness then there has to be categorizing of what appears.
Maybe your concept of 'judgement' is a mix with 'being emotionally affected'. From my perspective the concept of 'judgement' merely means 'categorizing objects': 'it is this (but not that)'. The best way to not be emotionally affected while being mindful is to see the emptiness of inherent existence of all objects appearing (sense objects, emotions, thoughts etc.), i.e. to integrate insight into emptiness and mindfulness.

I'm not talking about my concept or my philosophy, but I'm talking about Buddhism. 90% of my words in Buddhism thread is based on Buddhism teaching. I can give you all the source of my post if you want. And, we are in Buddhism thread. Like it or not, we talk based on Buddhism.
Reading your post reminds 10 years ago of me where I learn Zen as a philosophy, never meditate, never follow tradition, and no need for me to have a teacher for learn Buddhism. Lucky me, I took a challenge to prove to my self if I'm right.

Originally Posted by Ground

That is ambivalent advice because it could be understood as 'thoughts are bad/wrong and have to be stopped'. But no, thoughts are perfectly ok. A state of 'no thought' can easily become a state of stupidity.

Your mind will never empty with thoughts even when you are in 'no mind' or 'no thought' state.

Just info,
If you learn Buddhism just as philosophy but never meditate, you will ended with your own philosophy.