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  #31  
Old 18-04-2020, 02:29 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Excellent, thank you!
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  #32  
Old 18-04-2020, 09:29 PM
django django is offline
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Originally Posted by jonesboy
In Theravada

Ajahn Mun, the leading figure behind the modern Thai Forest Tradition, comments on this verse:

The mind is something more radiant than anything else can be, but because counterfeits – passing defilements – come and obscure it, it loses its radiance, like the sun when obscured by clouds. Don’t go thinking that the sun goes after the clouds. Instead, the clouds come drifting along and obscure the sun. So meditators, when they know in this manner, should do away with these counterfeits by analyzing them shrewdly... When they develop the mind to the stage of the primal mind, this will mean that all counterfeits are destroyed, or rather, counterfeit things won’t be able to reach into the primal mind, because the bridge making the connection will have been destroyed. Even though the mind may then still have to come into contact with the preoccupations of the world, its contact will be like that of a bead of water rolling over a lotus leaf.[15]

Thanissaro Bhikkhu sees the luminous mind as "the mind that the meditator is trying to develop. To perceive its luminosity means understanding that defilements such as greed, aversion, or delusion are not intrinsic to its nature, are not a necessary part of awareness." He associates the term with the simile used to describe the fourth jhana which states:

"Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness.

In Mahayana Buddhism

Mahayana sutras generally affirm the pure and luminous nature of the mind, adding that this is its natural condition (prakrti-prabhsvara-citta).

This mind (citta) is no-mind (acitta), because its natural character is luminous. What is this state of the mind’s luminosity (prabhsvarat)? When the mind is neither associated with nor dissociated from greed, hatred, delusion, proclivities (anusaya), fetters (samyojana), or false views (drsti), then this constitutes its luminosity. Does the mind exist as no-mind? In the state of no-mind (acittat), the states of existence (astit) or non-existence (nstit) can be neither found nor established... What is this state of no-mind? The state of no-mind, which is immutable (avikra) and undifferentiated (avikalpa), constitutes the ultimate reality (dharmat) of all dharmas. Such is the state of no-mind.

Tathagatagarbha

In the canonical discourses, when the brightly shining citta is "unstained," it is supremely poised for arahantship, and so could be conceived as the "womb" of the arahant, for which a synonym is tathagata.[26] The discourses do not support seeing the "luminous mind" as "nirvana within" which exists prior to liberation.[27] While the Canon does not support the identification of the "luminous mind" in its raw state with nirvanic consciousness, passages could be taken to imply that it can be transformed into the latter.[28][29] Upon the destruction of the fetters, according to one scholar, "the shining nibbanic consciousness flashes out of the womb of arahantship, being without object or support, so transcending all limitations."[30]

Both the Shurangama Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra describe the tathagatagarbha ("arahant womb") as "by nature brightly shining and pure," and "originally pure," though "enveloped in the garments of the skandhas, dhatus and ayatanas and soiled with the dirt of attachment, hatred, delusion and false imagining." It is said to be "naturally pure," but it appears impure as it is stained by adventitious defilements.[31] Thus the Lankavatara Sutra identifies the luminous mind of the Canon with the tathagatagarbha.[32] Some Gelug philosophers, in contrast to teachings in the Lankavatara Sutra, maintain that the "purity" of the tathagatagarbha is not because it is originally or fundamentally pure, but because mental flaws can be removed — that is, like anything else, they are not part of an individual's fundamental essence. These thinkers thus refuse to turn epistemological insight about emptiness and Buddha-nature into an essentialist metaphysics.

Vajrayana


Luminosity or clear light (Tibetan 'od gsal, Sanskrit prabhāsvara), is a central concept in Esoteric Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism and Bon. It is the innate condition of the mind, associated with buddha-nature, the realisation of which is the goal of meditative practice.

The Indian tantric commentator Indrabhuti, in his Jñanasiddhi, states that

Being luminous by nature, this mind is similar to the moon’s disc. The lunar disc epitomises the knowledge (jñāna) that is luminous by nature. Just as the waxing moon gradually emerges in its fullness, in the same way the mind-jewel (cittaratna), being naturally luminous, also fully emerges in its perfected state. Just as the moon becomes fully visible, once it is freed from the accidental obscurities, in the same way the mind-jewel, being pure by nature (prakṛti-pariśuddha), once separated from the stains of defilements (kleśa), appears as the perfected buddha-qualities (guṇa).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_mind

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I agree, clouds obscure the true nature of mind which is like the sun. I love your quotes JB
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  #33  
Old 19-04-2020, 02:19 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Originally Posted by django
I agree, clouds obscure the true nature of mind which is like the sun. I love your quotes JB

Thank you very much. Means a lot. :)
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  #34  
Old 23-04-2020, 05:10 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind."

The luminous mind is the mind that the meditator is trying to develop. To perceive its luminosity means understanding that defilements such as greed, aversion, or delusion are not intrinsic to its nature, are not a necessary part of awareness. Without this understanding, it would be impossible to practice. With this understanding, however, one can make an effort to cut away existing defilements, leaving the mind in the stage that MN 24 calls "purity in terms of mind." This would correspond to the luminous level of concentration described in the standard simile for the fourth jhana: "And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness." From this state it is possible to develop the discernment that not only cuts away existing defilements but also uproots any potential for them to ever arise again. Only in the stages of Awakening that follow on those acts of discernment would "consciousness without feature" be realized.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....049.than.html

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  #35  
Old 30-04-2020, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
The luminous mind is the mind that the meditator is trying to develop. To perceive its luminosity means understanding that defilements such as greed, aversion, or delusion are not intrinsic to its nature, are not a necessary part of awareness. Without this understanding, it would be impossible to practice. With this understanding, however, one can make an effort to cut away existing defilements, leaving the mind in the stage that MN 24 calls "purity in terms of mind." This would correspond to the luminous level of concentration described in the standard simile for the fourth jhana: "And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness." From this state it is possible to develop the discernment that not only cuts away existing defilements but also uproots any potential for them to ever arise again. Only in the stages of Awakening that follow on those acts of discernment would "consciousness without feature" be realized.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....049.than.html

.

the developed mind knows through experience that there is no such thing as defilement. cause its not up to him or her. knowing this the mind becomes relaxed and there becomes no hang ups in the system in being open to beyond mind. one knows its on a personal level of what one may find liking to or not. and then that is ok. because again there is no such thing from beyond mind. the dual gets to know the nondual. thus no conflict between the two. which is why i think surrendering is a good word as the process goes.
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:00 PM
BlueElephant BlueElephant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
That karma is based on ignorance, while without ignorance
[Karma] is said not to arise, is exclusively a belief held by the unwise.
The sun of their excellent minds perfectly clearing away obscurity,
The wise comprehend emptiness and are liberated.

This sloka is very similar. This is such priceless advice for practitioners. As we can see, the
Madhyamakavatara also has a lot of practical advice for practitioners and meditators. All the socalled
non-virtuous actions such as killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, covetousness and
so on, all come from ignorance. Also, all the good deeds, like generosity, discipline, patience,
compassion and devotion also come from ignorance. Here Chandrakirti is saying that only a foolish person thinks that all action and karma comes from ignorance, but that without ignorance
there is no action and no karma. Someone who possesses excellent mind, such as a sixth bhumi
bodhisattva, has an understanding of emptiness, which is like the sun that illuminates all the
darkness of ignorance and action. Those who are wise will be liberated, because they have
understood the emptiness that is beyond virtuous action, non-virtuous action and ignorance. This
is a big statement, and it should tell you something about buddhist emptiness. It is not a nihilistic
statement at all, if you think about it carefully. Who dares to say things like this? Very few, I
think.

Love this - Thank you
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  #37  
Old 05-12-2020, 07:52 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueElephant
Love this - Thank you
Yes, indeed...Thank you, jonesboy.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #38  
Old 05-12-2020, 10:10 PM
BlueElephant BlueElephant is offline
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I wonder if he will come back to this thread....
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