Do you believe in Evolution?

[Titortastic]

Those who believe in evolution I have some questions I would like to present. Initially not to debate but for clarification. First of all is it really possible to believe in evolution and be Christian, Catholic, etc? Secondly something that has really bothered me is the effects of evolution.

What I mean by that is the idea there is a evolutionary change that occurs when the body adapts over many many years to the changing functions of its biology. One specific example that I cant seem to get over is Wisdom teeth. I was told that we used to use our back molars more prevalently waaaaay back when, when chewing was necessary to rip meat off bones and so on and so forth. If that is true then evolution is a thing right? Otherwise here is my dilemma.

I believe that we were created by....something(s), or someone(s). But people really do have issues with their wisdom teeth coming in or is that a farce. I got mine taken out before they "became a problem" but other people have had issues with them right? If wisdom teeth ARE and issue and need to be removed then doesn't that give evolution more ground?

How can we be created in the image of our creators whim but have notable mass biological problems?

Also I do realize the dentistry field is a business but I was just curious if anyone hasn't had their wisdom teeth pulled and had any issues with them.

I guess i'll start with that and let it ride...

[Baile]

Like all truth, the answer is somewhere in the middle, between religion's creation teachings and science's evolution theories.

Read up on yugas. Physical-material existence is created and re-created again and again over eons of time. There have been many physical-material (earth) cycles. Each cycle introduces a new soul impulse into humanity's collective evolution. Our eternal souls reside in Spirit. Once the new physical-material incarnation plane is prepared, souls incarnate into it, to populate it. So you see it's both creation and evolution.

The Adam and Eve story is not describing the very beginning of existence. Many worlds and world-cycles have come before that, Atlantis and Lemuria were the two previous cycles. Rather, the Bible story is only describing earth's most recent post-yuga incarnation, wherein our new soul impulse has to do with the evolution of individual wisdom and inner truth (tree of knowledge, expulsion from the garden i.e. external God-truth).

Some streams of esoteric philosophy identify the teeth as the calcified bone material of the body's previous incarnation. That's one explanation I've heard. The removal of base and inconsequential physical-material matter like teeth, in no way impacts the soul and soul's evolution journey, that's all one has to recognize.

Well you're right. Something created everything and it's beyond the scope of human perception to find out what. We can only go by (or set up) a model of the One True Creator that works for us. (It's been a question of consistency and validity for me. I'm pretty close to the Kabalistic thought).

The alleged Creator of the Bible isn't necessarily the True Creator. Gnostics view "him" as a demiurge that came into being basically as a mistake, an entity that tried to seize creative power and abused it.

Evolution - interesting. Species do adapt. There's something probable about natural selection - individual animals that can't cope with a changing environment tend to die which brings in the question of genetics and the statistical need to spread variation per species. Words could be conjured up to show that it's god-driven likewise one could get technical and show the ecology to be adjusting all the time (often in response to animal activity) so it comes down to belief.

Humans tend to be an arrogant lot, thinking they're supreme in the universe. They also seem to believe they're the end of the evolutionary line. The easy answer is some preternatural force - god - created the world and us. Although our thinking and scientific investigation have moved beyond the simple times of Moses the story isn't yet complete, nor is it likely to be thanks to the limits of human perception. However, we can say that something bigger than humanity created it all at some point. How and why will remain a mystery. It could be that the successor to humanity finds the answers.

♥

[lemex]

Think in terms of DNA information and it's replication. There is a range of information that can be replicated from. It's built in us, it's there hanging about. The gene is not fully exposed but covered and this covering moves to expose parts of the gene. I've always wondered if this plays a role, so thought I'd ask, anyone know about this to. There is a certain amount of flexibility based on interaction with the environment. We are not immutable by or in nature. Absolutely, it is a thing. If it is a thing a person of any Religion can believe in evolution though there are aspects of evolution not believed. Every part of the body is affected by evolution. Creator set things in motion, active versus passive. Also keep in mind the social structure and of human nature is a little different from other creatures that affect evolution.

[iamthat]

First of all is it really possible to believe in evolution and be Christian, Catholic? Secondly something that has really bothered me is the effects of evolution.

I am not a Christian but I suspect that there are many practising Christians who do not take everything in the Bible as literal truth. Perhaps they are happy just to focus on the New Testament and their relationship with Christ, without knowing the real history behind the books that make up the NT.

But when you speak of evolution, do you mean the ability of physical forms to adapt to their environments over long periods of time? This does seem to happen, but it does not disprove the existence of a Creative Intelligence. From an esoteric perspective the human form has been around for far longer than is accepted by the mainstream, and this form has changed over the aeons and no doubt will continue to change.

Or do you mean by evolution the idea that human beings are somehow descended from apes? For me, this is a very bizarre theory which makes no sense. It requires very material thinking and a very limited idea of human history and purpose.

For me, the real evolution is the evolution of consciousness, both on an individual level and on the level of humanity. The forms that consciousness uses may change over time, and as consciousness develops so it requires more advanced physical forms for self-expression.

So human beings in future races may differ to how we appear now, and they may naturally have abilities (eg clairvoyance, etc) which are now just latent for most of us.

Peace.

[Titortastic]

Originally Posted by Baile

Some streams of esoteric philosophy identify the teeth as the calcified bone material of the body's previous incarnation. That's one explanation I've heard. The removal of base and inconsequential physical-material matter like teeth, in no way impacts the soul and soul's evolution journey, that's all one has to recognize.

Are you implying that our wisdom teeth are evolutionarily linked to our previous lives i.e. our Atlantean souls used them? or am I misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Evolution - interesting. Species do adapt. There's something probable about natural selection - individual animals that can't cope with a changing environment tend to die which brings in the question of genetics and the statistical need to spread variation per species. Words could be conjured up to show that it's god-driven likewise one could get technical and show the ecology to be adjusting all the time (often in response to animal activity) so it comes down to belief.

It could be that the successor to humanity finds the answers.

♥

I like that last part, its almost unfathomable to consider a future human form. Not to say that i'm arrogant but I suppose my feeble mind can't begin to imagine the next level. I guess it would be arrogance to consider humans the smartest species although we impact the world the most it seems mostly in a negative way.

I did hear from someone that the next level of humans may be a crystalline giant form but I don't remember where I heard that. I'm immensely interested in Sumerian and Egyptian times they seem to really have things together. They had electricity, noted the stars, created machines for meditation (I assume) I think they were WAY more advanced then we are now spiritually speaking and I guess technologically as well if you consider no one knows how the pyramids were created.

I would love to hear from someone who has channeled with old souls like Thoth or Enki and what the hell was going on during that time.

Originally Posted by lemex

Think in terms of DNA information and it's replication. There is a range of information that can be replicated from. It's built in us, it's there hanging about. The gene is not fully exposed but covered and this covering moves to expose parts of the gene. I've always wondered if this plays a role, so thought I'd ask, anyone know about this to. There is a certain amount of flexibility based on interaction with the environment. We are not immutable by or in nature. Absolutely, it is a thing. If it is a thing a person of any Religion can believe in evolution though there are aspects of evolution not believed. Every part of the body is affected by evolution. Creator set things in motion, active versus passive. Also keep in mind the social structure and of human nature is a little different from other creatures that affect evolution.

I saw from the television show The Code that someone tried to replicate the perfect snowflake. Even in a vacuum the snow flake still reacted to external stimuli and its fractal ended up being a mixture of its internal code and external condition. I'm curious why our internal code still has our wisdom teeth.

I suppose there could be both evolution and creation but I refuse to believe we evolved from primates, they are two very distinct species.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Titortastic

I saw from the television show The Code that someone tried to replicate the perfect snowflake. Even in a vacuum the snow flake still reacted to external stimuli and its fractal ended up being a mixture of its internal code and external condition. I'm curious why our internal code still has our wisdom teeth.

I suppose there could be both evolution and creation but I refuse to believe we evolved from primates, they are two very distinct species.

Are you thinking evolution somehow has knowledge and because wisdom teeth can end up being a potential problem it should in some way change the internal code. My understanding is evolution doesn't say humans evolved from primates, we say that I think based on appearance and jumped to that conclusion early on. Primates took their separate path unknown to them.

Consciousness might be the evolution difference most important we're missing. I've read some suggest the last evolution we can point to was some 50,000 - 70.000 years ago with the evolution and development of the neocortex, modern human brain. Evolution doesn't plan which is why we still have our teeth, there are x number of them. Metaphysics tells us consciousness creates reality it is that powerful.

I'm with you, creation happened, not ours but evolution. In regards to the idea of what came first, it wasn't physical evolution but chemical evolution, information. Just some thought that may or may not even be true. You'd make a good scientist.

[Busby]

Evolution as understood by say Richard Dawkins and his peers is blind. This for me anyway is the greatest problem.

If evolution is blind then it is capable of discovering only by chance that if it makes an eye it can observe the world. That is, if it is blind it doesn't know that it's observing the world. That is it doesn't know that it has discovered something. There comes the problem of how did it know that if it developed an eye that there would be a world to observe? And, if it is blind, how did it pass on all the information to develop eyes in other creatures that it blindly created?

I don't need to go on...

[LibraIndigo]

"A way to liberate the souls entangled in matter was created. A physical form became available as a vehicle for the soul on Earth. A way became available for souls to enter the Earth and experience it as part of their evolutionary/reincarnation cycle. Of the physical forms already existing on Earth, a species of anthropoid ape most nearly approached the necessary pattern. Souls descended on these apes - hovering above and about them rather than inhabiting them - and influenced them to move toward a different goal from the simple one they had been pursuing. They came down out of the trees, built fires, made tools, lived in communities, and began to communicate with each other. Eventually they lost their animal look, shed bodily hair, and took on refinements of manner and habit.

The evolution of the human body occurred partly through the soul's influence on the endocrine glands until the ape-man was a three-dimensional objectification of the soul hovering above it. Then the soul fully descended into the body and Earth had a new inhabitant: the homo sapien."

http://www.near-death.com/paranormal...n-origins.html

[Jack of Spades]

Originally Posted by Titortastic

What I mean by that is the idea there is a evolutionary change that occurs when the body adapts over many many years to the changing functions of its biology.

For clarification, the evolution theory doesn't really suggest that the body of an individual adapts all that much. It's rather about adapting populations, when natural selection favors the types of individuals that can survive the best and pass their genes on. This happens over a very long period of time.

The evidence for evolution is pretty convincing, just two common sense examples:

Animals in different continents - Plenty of American and European birds are more or less the same bird, with few small differences f.e. American eagle has a white head, the European one doesn't. This perfectly fits into the theory of evolution, the bird population started as a one species, then the populations got separated in different continents and evolved as two distinct species. The color of the head seems like a rather random detail, which just happened over the time in the genepool of the American population, but not with the European one.

Furry versions of animals in the north You can find lots and lots of mammals that are the same, but have longer fur in the north. Siberian tiger has longer fur than tigers living in warm regions do. The same with bison and muskox, or tundra wolf vs grey wolf. Very often the animal is otherwise the same, but one living in cold regions has a longer fur. It makes every sense from the point of view of evolution theory: the individuals with longer fur are more likely to survive in northern climate and therefore natural selection ends up favoring them over a very long period of time, tilting the population towards a long furred version of the animal.

Originally Posted by Busby

If evolution is blind then it is capable of discovering only by chance that if it makes an eye it can observe the world. That is, if it is blind it doesn't know that it's observing the world. That is it doesn't know that it has discovered something. There comes the problem of how did it know that if it developed an eye that there would be a world to observe? And, if it is blind, how did it pass on all the information to develop eyes in other creatures that it blindly created?

Because evolution is so complex, journalists, tv-personalities and populists often represent it in a simplified form by using phrases such as "arms race of the nature" etc. or intentionally talk about the concept as if it was aware of itself. These are just rhetorical devises to familiarize the concept of evolution, or are used for entertainment value, and are not even meant to be taken literally.

Evolution does not need to know it has created something useful. If we start with a population of blind snakes and some of them begin to develop eyesight, due to random genetical mutations, the usefulness of the mutation makes sure that individuals with this trait are more likely to survive, thus passing the eye-gene on to the next generations. Any mutation that increases the chances of an individual to survive is more likely to pass on to the next generation. Vice versa, any mutation that's harmful or useless, is more unlikely to pass on. There needs to be no consciousness about the process, it's simply a matter of increased odds.