Wicca and Christianity

[Jenny Crow]

Because the Christian god wants to be excluded. The Christian god does not want his followers acknowledging ANY OTHER gods, let alone honour or worship them.

Quote: "I still can't see how a religion that recognizes divinity in pretty much everything can choose to exclude anything just because another faith believes it.

Christianity shuns and excludes the pagan gods and goddesses (even though, as you say, many of their religious holidays are based on pagan ones). The Wicca and or Witches exclude the Christian god not just because another faith believes in him but because most of them don't even believe in the Christian god and/or don't want anything to do with a god who punishes and demands so much, etc.

Would you find it as hard to believe that followers of the Hawaiian religion, for instance or the Huna religion would exclude the Christian god?

(Yes, I find ancient history, especially that of my native country, Britain, is sooo interesting, I love it)

Originally Posted by Jenny Crow

Would you find it as hard to believe that followers of the Hawaiian religion, for instance or the Huna religion would exclude the Christian god?

I couldn't possibly comment, as I know nothing of that religion. I know that some religions accept and even honour the gods of others, and some don't. The ones that do are often the shamanic ones, while the ones that don't are usually the monotheistic ones. The Christian god isn't even a Christian god. As I mentioned before, he is the god of the Jews, and elements of Judaism were incorporated into witchcraft (qabalah anyone? star of David/Pentagram?).

All the gods are brutal by human standards, simply because they are just aspects of nature, and nature is brutal. It is easier to give a phenomenon a name than it is to describe it fully, hence gods are born. The moon is just a rock in the sky, but it has many and varied subtle but significant influences on life on earth. It is easier to call it a goddess than it is to try to understand everything about it, and if you were teaching it to someone else, even if you did fully understand it, trying to explain it someone, it would be easier to call it a goddess (and you wouldn't be wrong, depending on your definitions of divinity - if your definition of divinity is nature, then everything IS a god or goddess). Why should witches then exclude a god that, in creating man in his own image, is a jealous god? Does that not simply describe an aspect of nature? I.e. that man (the being created in 'gods' image) is a jealous and sometimes hostile being.

[Jenny Crow]

Oh, lol, my brain's getting tired. You'd be a great student to have, I must say

Witches exclude the god that the Christians follow mostly because he is jealous and so on; and as I said previously he doesn't want to be lumped in with a gaggle of other gods and goddesses in the polytheistic pagan religions and traditions. I don't think the Christians look upon the god they follow as simply an aspect of Nature. I do not look upon the gods as simply aspects of Nature, I am a hard polytheist due to the experiences that I've been honoured to have gone through.

Yes, man (and us women) have our foibles, there are times we're jealous and definitely hostile and war-like (the Celts loved a good battle ) ARE we made in the image of the Christian god? Were we made by god - was god around a million years ago?

[almondeyez68]

If ya'll don't mind I would like to add my penny worth on this topic. I don't know too much about Wicca, nor any other religion. Yes, I was raise in a christian household, and read from the Holy Bible. As I've gotten older and started on my personal Spiritual journey, I've adopted and learn a few things along the way. We are all spiritual beings with many beliefs. I don't tag myself to any cult or groups, I simply learn and take from here and there to better myself as a individual. Lately, with the spiritual centers popping up everywhere, people are trying to find out where exactly they belong and what they should believe in. Most of the Christians as well other religions are re- evaluating their teaching, beliefs to become more spiritual beings. Tapping into the spiritual realm. In the Bible days, people used Candles, incense, blood, herbs, rituals, seers and so on, but some label this as witchcraft, voo doo..why? and this is where Wiccan comes in and call it spells and magic?? Please correct me? I'm learning Thank you :)

Originally Posted by almondeyez68

If ya'll don't mind I would like to add my penny worth on this topic. I don't know too much about Wicca, nor any other religion. Yes, I was raise in a christian household, and read from the Holy Bible. As I've gotten older and started on my personal Spiritual journey, I've adopted and learn a few things along the way. We are all spiritual beings with many beliefs. I don't tag myself to any cult or groups, I simply learn and take from here and there to better myself as a individual. Lately, with the spiritual centers popping up everywhere, people are trying to find out where exactly they belong and what they should believe in. Most of the Christians as well other religions are re- evaluating their teaching, beliefs to become more spiritual beings. Tapping into the spiritual realm. In the Bible days, people used Candles, incense, blood, herbs, rituals, seers and so on, but some label this as witchcraft, voo doo..why? and this is where Wiccan comes in and call it spells and magic?? Please correct me? I'm learning Thank you :)

Very well put. I think that's a very accurate summary.

[Jenny Crow]

Are you saying that in the Bible days people used candles, incense, blood, herbs, rituals, seers and so on but some label this as Witchcraft, Voodoo and you're wondering why........and this is where Wicca comes in and calls it spells and magic??

Yes, all the above are similar - they are all religions first and the magic and spells are a small part of each.

[norseman]

Now, now Dai, the largest Celtic population was in England. The North of England was a huge confederation which stretched as far North as the Firth of Forth and as far west as the Mersey. Part of this confederation held land in S-E Ireland too. The confederation consisted of the Brigantes [largest group]. To the east [current East Riding of Yorkshire] were the Parisii [from the Seine basin]. To the west were the Calvetii [Cumbria], originally from Wales.

[norseman]

Badger, the argument Wicca/Witchcraft -v- Christianity is nothing to do with the teachings of Christ [who I regard as an important teacher of Mankind], it is more to do with the ORGANISED religion of "Churchianity" which is a different kettle of fish entirely.
In my opinion, the subject of deities comes full circle back to Yin - Yang or Masculine - Feminine principles. All deities fit into this simple model - it's just a matter of labeling according to different cultures.

Originally Posted by norseman

Badger, the argument Wicca/Witchcraft -v- Christianity is nothing to do with the teachings of Christ [who I regard as an important teacher of Mankind], it is more to do with the ORGANISED religion of "Churchianity" which is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Yes, I can agree with that (I think I might have said so either in this thread or another somewhere).

Christianity teaches tolerance, it teaches unconditional love for all, and in general, teaches us to try to be nice to each other. It also teaches that through cultivation of the mind, we will achieve eternal life. It does also teach that some people are not to be trusted unfortunately (which is the truth) so it is a realistic religion and an inclusive one.

As you say though, the church is something else entirely. There is nothing in the Christian teachings that suggest that innocent young women should be burned, hanged or drowned just because they were seen picking a few herbs one evening, or because they had a freckle or birthmark, or because their husband decided he fancied someone else but didn't want to be a sinner by divorcing, so chose instead to simply start a deadly rumour. I might be wrong, but I can't seem to remember the bit in my Christian teachings at school, other than the wicked teachers' own interpretation, that said we were all going to hell just for the fun of it. The church is nothing more than a political propaganda machine and corporation. I see the relationship between Christianity and church as being similar to the relationship between nature and energy company. In the latter, the energy companies are clearly driven by profit and will rape the earth for their own gains, while sticking the odd wind turbine here and there and claiming that as proof that they are doing the right thing.

[Jenny Crow]

Originally Posted by Badger1777

The church is nothing more than a political propaganda machine and corporation. I see the relationship between Christianity and church as being similar to the relationship between nature and energy company. In the latter, the energy companies are clearly driven by profit and will rape the earth for their own gains, while sticking the odd wind turbine here and there and claiming that as proof that they are doing the right thing.

Applause - - well said Badger