Levels/Layers of Progression

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would agree that having a teacher is very beneficial. :)

Indeed, but following one who has not penetrated through to the real heart of the teachings is limiting oneself too much.

By the way, I like you as a friend and companion, but sometimes I fear you feel you are able to teach, and hold yourself out in this way in this forum, and perhaps others.

There is such a thing as lineage and teachers for a reason. We can't see our own blindspots.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by django

I expect more than just bliss, I also expect wisdom and compassion, if I see little evidence of the latter I have no interest in the former.

Often called the twin pillars in Buddhism.

Bliss is just the peace of mind that comes with a truly liberated heart mind. In that there is great contentment. Words are not so important as the liberation of heart mind.

Those who overemphasize bliss are not yet conversant with the teachings and in that way mislead others.

[running]

the teacher is in ones own heart.

everything is possible. but why people spend so much time about whom said what. when the teacher is in their own heart.

everything that unfolds does so from the heart. everything surrenders to the heart. not to somebodys idea. not to a person. not even to god. unless that God is actually ones own heart.

its not by any stretch of the imagination a mystery of where it unfolds from. from the HEART! it is a mystery of how it unfolds. since we are all living different lives as different people.

teachers help one find there own heart. a good one anyways imo. i appreciate those teachers.

as far as whom talked about bliss and how much. the heart does and it does so endlessly. that is its language. and why everything surrenders to it.

its all so simple anybody can get it.

[running]

continued thoughts.

and its not like i think jesus and the budda werent showing people to their own hearts. i never met them but would be very surprised if they weren't.

they are probably laughing in there graves how people spend more time ahout every word they may have or may have not said. its ridiculious imo. wasted energy.

and then you have the bliss debate. reminds me of when doctors were argueing about whether taking vitamin c was beneficial. totally different topic. but the debate was just as ridiculiois of whether the hearf unfolds into a living bliss expereince. of course it does. some say there may be something beyond bliss. could be. i dont know? i do know unfolding the heart into a living bliss experience is a good place to be. nobody can say suffering is preferable. that would also be ridiculiois. in any case whether there is a place beyond it or not. i would personally concern myself with getting up the first flight of stairs. and then later concern myself about the next one.


there are all kinds of great teachers out there imo. if you dont like so and so because of such and such. find another. bliss doesn't make somebodys identity. that has to do with their background, living experiences in life, and perhaps previous incarnations. bliss does make the person in more of their own happiness. making their life easier. but trying to diagnose somebody by the base of their personality, identity, and personal preferences is in no way or very little going to show you where their at on the spiritual path. to some degree perhaps. but not like people think. but the good news is there are many teachers out there if your looking for one. presence of a teacher has shown to work for many. i have taken advantage of being in the presence of teachers. and may do so again one day.

[blossomingtree]

Without (true) compassion, bliss is just another walk in the amusement park. Not to mention transcendental knowledge, but that is another thing...

To running: I respect that you enjoy your life everyone should, too, but to call a certain state the only and limited path of the great Saints is a parody. Isn't it great you are happy where you are? Kudos.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by running

the teacher is in ones own heart.

everything is possible. but why people spend so much time about whom said what. when the teacher is in their own heart.

everything that unfolds does so from the heart. everything surrenders to the heart. not to somebodys idea. not to a person. not even to god. unless that God is actually ones own heart.

its not by any stretch of the imagination a mystery of where it unfolds from. from the HEART! it is a mystery of how it unfolds. since we are all living different lives as different people.

teachers help one find there own heart. a good one anyways imo. i appreciate those teachers.

as far as whom talked about bliss and how much. the heart does and it does so endlessly. that is its language. and why everything surrenders to it.

its all so simple anybody can get it.

Let's parse this a little more. For anyone interested in spiritual paths, this is not the complete picture. And it seems a common fallacy that (genuinely realized) teachers such as Jesus, Buddha and others are not needed or all they do is tell you to find your heart or go live on bliss as a diet (not that there is anything wrong with this, but I contend it is certainly not a complete picture -- at least in terms of the spiritual path -- no, there is much more...)

For anyone else, or those content with where they are and feel they have found the answer, of course - live and let live but there are many more insights than what you read about in books or talk about at campfires

[running]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Let's parse this a little more. For anyone interested in spiritual paths, this is not the complete picture. And it seems a common fallacy that (genuinely realized) teachers such as Jesus, Buddha and others are not needed or all they do is tell you to find your heart or go live on bliss as a diet (not that there is anything wrong with this, but I contend it is certainly not a complete picture -- at least in terms of the spiritual path -- no, there is much more...)

For anyone else, or those content with where they are and feel they have found the answer, of course - live and let live but there are many more insights than what you read about in books or talk about at campfires

no it really is that simple imo. culture is a different subject. psychic is a different subject. the heart itself is the compassion. culture and belief systems are not the heart. they are ideas of what to do and how to be. one is not the other. an opinion of a compassionate act is an opinion. everyone has an opinion of what that may be.

but it doesnt really matter. what does is that somebody is doing what they believe is good for them.

[blossomingtree]

Is that what you tell the cows? Cheers.

Less tongue in cheek, for some perhaps, for most of is, clearing and distinguishing to effect a free and liberated heart is a life's work. Let me remind you that everything ultimately emanates from heart - so that is why purification/clarification/distinguishment of Truth v falsehood is a significant spiritual path.

[running]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

Is that what you tell the cows? Cheers.

Less tongue in cheek, for some perhaps, for most of is, clearing and distinguishing to effect a free and liberated heart is a life's work. Let me remind you that everything ultimately emanates from heart - so that is why purification/clarification/distinguishment of Truth v falsehood is a significant spiritual path.

and as long as people use god as a force for a culture. good or bad in popular opinion. conflict and hatred will prevail in humanity.

real faith as i see it is not for the faint of heart. its is an ultimate surrender.