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  #91  
Old 24-08-2019, 12:28 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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  #92  
Old 24-08-2019, 09:15 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Oneness Enigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Bing-go! The miss-calculations are necessary aspects of the process whereby Life arrives at the 'final' solution (I mean resolution ).
To picture the activity of the Living Entity of our Creation (i.e., of ‘the Son’), imagine a universe-sized network made up of an infinite array of banks upon banks of computers matrixially web-strung together by way of both parallel and series connections, all simultaneously, individually and together, multi-processing the above referenced Love and Joy ‘program’, with each processor and every amalgamation thereof functionally outputting the ‘solution’ it ‘calculates’ will most probably yield the greatest possible Love and Joy ‘result’ in its case (as far as it can prognostically project, that is), which ‘solution’ then operationally functions as input in relation of any and all associated processors to whatever extent they ‘calculate’ it to be relevant to their own Love and Joy process, such that said output-n-input data-packet sequences co-actively ripple and reverberate around the network, sparking Love and Joy focused perceptions and decisions (i.e., experiences and expressions) which conjointly determine what takes place here, there and everywhere in ‘the body’ of said Entity over the course of time.

Hi Davidsun,

I enjoyed your "BINGO!" response, which, in another "game-like" setting of the metaphor, implies that a prize (of understanding) has been achieved.

A singular image came to mind thinking of your descriptions of "the picture the activity of the Living Entity of our Creation (i.e., of ‘the Son’)" and the image of "banks upon banks of computers matrixially web-strung together....." .

The image that came my mind was that of a Mobius strip: described herein from a Wikipedia reference: A Möbius strip, Möbius band, or Möbius loop (UK: /ˈmɜːbiəs/, US: /ˈmoʊ-, ˈmeɪ-/; German: [ˈmøːbi̯ʊs]), also spelled Mobius or Moebius, is a surface with only one side (when embedded in three-dimensional Euclidean space) and only one boundary. The Möbius strip has the mathematical property of being unorientable. It can be realized as a ruled surface. Its discovery is attributed to the German mathematicians Johann Benedict Listing and then independently August Ferdinand Möbius in 1858,[1][2][3][4] though a structure similar to the Möbius strip can be seen in Roman mosaics dated circa 200–250 AD.[5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip

...which if one considers (or calculates) an imaginary journey upon one, one will always either "seam" to proceed from the "beginning of the end", or "seam" to proceed from the "end of the beginning". My spelling of "seam" vs. seem is deliberately ironic, isn't it? Why?

Think "I AM the Alpha and the Omega." and

Think "I (the Son) and the Father are One"

....as metaphors of an infinitely recurring journey of discovery which 'seams' to eternally begin and end as an infinity of different calculations diverging on different paths.

...upon which we each have already arrived, even as we depart on the journey.

Or as Chiang, says in the reference: "You must begin by knowing that you have already arrived"

In BINGO terms, we have "all"-ready won the prize!

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=124
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
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  #93  
Old 24-08-2019, 09:48 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Your 'resonation' with my computer-bank model presentation is joyfully danced with, guthrio. I receive your mobius strip mention and associated discussion as a stimulus to further quote from my treatise which presents a view that is quite convergent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
The image that came my mind was that of a Moebius strip: described herein from a Wikipedia reference: A Möbius strip, Möbius band, or Möbius loop (UK: /ˈmɜːbiəs/, US: /ˈmoʊ-, ˈmeɪ-/; German: [ˈmøːbi̯ʊs]), also spelled Mobius or Moebius, is a surface with only one side (when embedded in three-dimensional Euclidean space) and only one boundary. The Möbius strip has the mathematical property of being unorientable. It can be realized as a ruled surface. Its discovery is attributed to the German mathematicians Johann Benedict Listing and then independently August Ferdinand Möbius in 1858,[1][2][3][4] though a structure similar to the Möbius strip can be seen in Roman mosaics dated circa 200–250 AD.[5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip

...which if one considers (or calculates) an imaginary journey upon one, one will always either "seam" to proceed from the "beginning of the end", or "seam" to proceed from the "end of the beginning". My spelling of "seam" vs. seem is deliberately ironic, isn't it? Why?

Think "I AM the Alpha and the Omega." and

Think "I (the Son) and the Father are One"

....as metaphors of an infinitely recurring journey of discovery which eternally begins and ends as one path.

...upon which we each have already arrived, even as we depart on the journey.

Or as Chiang, says in the reference: "You must begin by knowing that you have already arrived"

In BINGO terms, we have "all"-ready won the prize!

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=124
Many would rather simply believe that by saying “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) Jesus unequivocally asserted that the gestalts of his and his/our Father’s spirits were absolutely identical, that they were literally one and the same aspect of Life in action; case closed. Such statement may certainly be read that way and, taken by itself, used to support God-concept co-opting narratives such as the one presented in the Nicene Creed which proclaims that the personage of Jesus was “begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;” etc. But it may also be taken to mean that Jesus thought and felt that his and said Father-God’s spirits were dynamically integrated and functionally co-operational, and so united as ‘one’, metaphorically speaking, in terms of purpose and consequence – analogous to the way in which partners who aren’t identical may accomplish something they both desire when and as they work together in a complementary manner, which they couldn’t and so wouldn’t be able to creatively accomplish if each worked alone. (This is what holism really means, by the way: “Holism is based upon idea that: the whole is more than the sum of its constitutive parts, so reduction of the whole to its constitutive elements eliminates some factors which are present only when a being is seen as a whole. For example, synergy is generated through the interaction of parts but it does not exist if we take parts alone.”)

For those who have reached the point where they are capable of dispassionately pondering such matters, I submit that “The Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:38) which Jesus added in the same speech-sequence (as “I and my Father are one”) clearly shows the latter understanding to be what he actually meant to communicate. Notwithstanding the meta-truth that every ‘feature’ of Creativity (Life, God, Reality, Being – however you wish to view and reference It) is an inseparably integral aspect of one all-inclusive phenomenon, in light of which any and all conceptual ‘divisions’ which distinguish aspects of It one from another may be seen to really just be navigational aides at best, this saying indicates that Jesus ‘saw’ that there was a dynamic, two-way flow-connection between the primally progenitive soul of ‘the Father’ and the consequentially co‑generative soul-constellation of ‘the Son’, such that the outflow from one functions as inflow in relation to the other in continuously ongoing outflow→inflow→ad infinitum fashion. Readers capable of engaging in abstract thought experiments may appreciate the kind of experience an observer walking lengthwise along the seemingly two‑sided ‘surface’ of a mobius strip would have and, if reasonably intelligent, sooner or later grok as analogically explaining the never‑ending ‘story’ of ever-ongoing Father↔Son Creation.

Actually, Jesus’ vision was even more penetrating and far-seeing than even the statement “The Father is in me, and I in him” implies. Presaging that wave-ripples of awareness and spiritual espousal of what he ‘saw’ and articulated would spread and become so mutually validating and reinforcing as to eventually peak in a worldwide crescendo, continuing to identify with and so speak in the ‘persona’ of The Entity of all Creation, he then went on to say, “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20) Such statement cannot possibly be made sense of using simple, linear A→B→C logic, of course, but how aspects of the identities of personal and transpersonal beings (beingnesses, really) can operationally be ‘in’ one another becomes readily understandable when and as one realizes, as more and more people are now doing, that our existential reality is a matrixially interwoven, dynamically living (that is, creatively growing, developing, evolving, etc.) system wherein the output of every personal and transpersonal component of said system functions as input in relation to any and all other components which, because of constitutional similarities and/or complementary affiliations, are vibrationally ‘attuned’ thereto, such that the process of every singular or compound element thereof, ‘from the least to the greatest’, ultimately directly or indirectly affects and is affected by the process of every other aspect of Life.
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  #94  
Old 24-08-2019, 11:02 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Oneness Enigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Your 'resonation' with my computer-bank model presentation is joyfully danced with, guthrio. I receive your mobius strip mention and associated discussion as a stimulus to further quote from my treatise which presents a view that is quite convergent.

Many would rather simply believe that by saying “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) Jesus unequivocally asserted that the gestalts of his and his/our Father’s spirits were absolutely identical, that they were literally one and the same aspect of Life in action; case closed. Such statement may certainly be read that way and, taken by itself, used to support God-concept co-opting narratives such as the one presented in the Nicene Creed which proclaims that the personage of Jesus was “begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;” etc. But it may also be taken to mean that Jesus thought and felt that his and said Father-God’s spirits were dynamically integrated and functionally co-operational, and so united as ‘one’, metaphorically speaking, in terms of purpose and consequence – analogous to the way in which partners who aren’t identical may accomplish something they both desire when and as they work together in a complementary manner, which they couldn’t and so wouldn’t be able to creatively accomplish if each worked alone. (This is what holism really means, by the way: “Holism is based upon idea that: the whole is more than the sum of its constitutive parts, so reduction of the whole to its constitutive elements eliminates some factors which are present only when a being is seen as a whole. For example, synergy is generated through the interaction of parts but it does not exist if we take parts alone.”)

For those who have reached the point where they are capable of dispassionately pondering such matters, I submit that “The Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:38) which Jesus added in the same speech-sequence (as “I and my Father are one”) clearly shows the latter understanding to be what he actually meant to communicate. Notwithstanding the meta-truth that every ‘feature’ of Creativity (Life, God, Reality, Being – however you wish to view and reference It) is an inseparably integral aspect of one all-inclusive phenomenon, in light of which any and all conceptual ‘divisions’ which distinguish aspects of It one from another may be seen to really just be navigational aides at best, this saying indicates that Jesus ‘saw’ that there was a dynamic, two-way flow-connection between the primally progenitive soul of ‘the Father’ and the consequentially co‑generative soul-constellation of ‘the Son’, such that the outflow from one functions as inflow in relation to the other in continuously ongoing outflow→inflow→ad infinitum fashion. Readers capable of engaging in abstract thought experiments may appreciate the kind of experience an observer walking lengthwise along the seemingly two‑sided ‘surface’ of a mobius strip would have and, if reasonably intelligent, sooner or later grok as analogically explaining the never‑ending ‘story’ of ever-ongoing Father↔Son Creation.

Actually, Jesus’ vision was even more penetrating and far-seeing than even the statement “The Father is in me, and I in him” implies. Presaging that wave-ripples of awareness and spiritual espousal of what he ‘saw’ and articulated would spread and become so mutually validating and reinforcing as to eventually peak in a worldwide crescendo, continuing to identify with and so speak in the ‘persona’ of The Entity of all Creation, he then went on to say, “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20) Such statement cannot possibly be made sense of using simple, linear A→B→C logic, of course, but how aspects of the identities of personal and transpersonal beings (beingnesses, really) can operationally be ‘in’ one another becomes readily understandable when and as one realizes, as more and more people are now doing, that our existential reality is a matrixially interwoven, dynamically living (that is, creatively growing, developing, evolving, etc.) system wherein the output of every personal and transpersonal component of said system functions as input in relation to any and all other components which, because of constitutional similarities and/or complementary affiliations, are vibrationally ‘attuned’ thereto, such that the process of every singular or compound element thereof, ‘from the least to the greatest’, ultimately directly or indirectly affects and is affected by the process of every other aspect of Life.

Davidsun,

I, too, am enjoying the dance.

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) Jesus unequivocally asserted that the gestalts of his and his/our Father’s spirits were absolutely identical, that they were literally one and the same aspect of Life in action; case closed. Such statement may certainly be read that way and, taken by itself, used to support God-concept co-opting narratives such as the one presented in the Nicene Creed which proclaims that the personage of Jesus was “begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;” etc.[/size] But [size=3]it may also be taken to mean that Jesus thought and felt that his and said Father-God’s spirits were dynamically integrated and functionally co-operational, and so united as ‘one’, metaphorically speaking,...."

....however, the view I've come to categorically, rather than metaphorically adopt, is that everything that you've described, above, that Jesus spoke of Himself in relation to His and our Father...

....and applies to us all, each and every One, in exactly the same way.

I believe this is the message that, in one way or another, continues to be disbelieved, or obscured to this day.

I personally began the journey of this discovery over 30 years ago, and which I've expanded in the references, below. My heart has been dancing ever since.

Reference: http://www.thechristmind.org/nutshell.htm

Reference:http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...72&postcount=8

Reference:http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...9&postcount=23
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)

Last edited by guthrio : 25-08-2019 at 01:05 AM. Reason: clarify input
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  #95  
Old 24-08-2019, 11:54 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
....however, the view I've come to categorically, rather than metaphorically adopt, is that everything that you've described, above, that Jesus spoke of Himself in relation to His and our Father...

....and applies to us all, each and every One, in exactly the same way.
Yes! The 'metaphor' I was referencing is the (idea of) the identicalness of his/our 'i'dentity/ies with 'Godhead'. I agree with what you say as being 'categorically' true.

High-Five Fellow Galloping Giddyapper!
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  #96  
Old 25-08-2019, 12:17 AM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Oneness Enigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Yes! The 'metaphor' I was referencing is the (idea of) the identicalness of his/our 'i'dentity/ies with 'Godhead'. I agree with what you say as being 'categorically' true.

High-Five Fellow Galloping Giddyapper!

Davidsun,

Well Done! I'm SO glad to hear this!

Ironically, I just saw the following in the reference below, the entirety of which which solidifies everything we've been speaking of, even to this note:

"Integrity" comes from "integer" which originates from "one". When a person realizes that "everything" is really just ONE thing, and that they are an integral part of this ONE thing, then they instinctively & automatically treat everyone & everything with the care, respect, and consideration, which which they would like to be treated. This is "integrity".

Would that the entire world could all remember how Galloping Giddyapper! true this is!

Reference: https://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/ (See interesting definitions, toward the bottom of the reference).
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)

Last edited by guthrio : 25-08-2019 at 12:44 AM. Reason: clarify input
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  #97  
Old 25-08-2019, 04:35 AM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
Reference: https://iasos.com/metaphys/bashar/ (See interesting definitions, toward the bottom of the reference).
Cool (meaning Hot Diggity ) stuff here! Caveat however: we still are in a 3+1 (the 3 being body and one being time) world, and one may short-circuit one's soul development if one leap-frogs (skipping the 'grade' level one is in here-now) into 5th dimension 'philosophical framework'. One has to do one's 'school work'. There are no 'escapes' in this regard, IMO.
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  #98  
Old 25-08-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
I tend to re-think my metaphors as insights come and go.

"You drop" ..nah .... there never was anything to drop, one only needed to realize that. You can't drop something you are not holding.

Good afternoon Phaelyn

Things are not always as they seem, yet they are.

You see it to be dropped or is a key.
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  #99  
Old 25-08-2019, 10:34 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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The Oneness Enigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
Cool (meaning Hot Diggity ) stuff here! Caveat however: we still are in a 3+1 (the 3 being body and one being time) world, and one may short-circuit one's soul development if one leap-frogs (skipping the 'grade' level one is in here-now) into 5th dimension 'philosophical framework'. One has to do one's 'school work'. There are no 'escapes' in this regard, IMO.

Davidsun,

As I previously mentioned to you about beginning this journey of learning over 30 years ago, please notice the mention, in the reference, below, of the impact of the set of books written by Baird T. Spalding, entitled, Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East.

One of the most profound realizations I've gleaned, of late, is the following:

Creation, in all its infinite forms, has already been completed! All WE must do, as Creators gifted with the Infinite Essence's OWN power, is to vibrationally align ourselves WITH the completed circumstance(s) we wish to experience upon the "holo-skein of space and time", in this, and in dimensions a'beckoning (where even more miraculous lessons await).

Here's a perfect segue to do so, herein attached, with a caveat of my own, namely, that because:

"We are not human beings having a Spiritual experience, we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience"
Pierre de Chardin

....our 1st task, IMO, must be to reverse the effects of acculturated, accumulated indoctrination, from childhood on, of merely existing to toil wearily as physical beings..

....toward realizing and optimizing this: "In a most miraculous fashion you are given the gift of creating your own experiences.".

Ironically, the song I just finished listening to on my favorite "Easy Instrumentals" TV channel "underscores" the prospects awaiting our collective engagement as a hardy species of Spiritual explorers:

"We've Only Just Begun" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

How serendipitous of the Universe to provide such a synchronicity for encouragement!!!

Insofar as learning miraculous lessons goes: WHAT COULD BE MORE FUN THAN THAT ?????

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...0&postcount=45 Miracles Are The Garden of You
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
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  #100  
Old 25-08-2019, 11:31 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Yes to, and delighting in, all your point(er)s, guthrio.

My caveat to the Bashar and similar '5D' 'pitches' is that, all too often IMO, such 'you-create-your-own-reality' or 'you-create-your-own-experience' tunes are danced to in 'I-got-mine-you-go-get-yours' ways which actually 'miss' the 'point' (meaning opportunity) that our 3+1D stage setting provides which is necessary IMO for real/true honest-to-goodness soul-growth and soul-flowering.

I don't know what their true intent*** is, but their (such disembodied spirit's) 'messages' may be and often are (in my view) seductively miss-leading (like giving a 'kid' a fast 'car' or a 'loose' girl, or boy as the case may be, to play with).

*** Some have speculated that they are basically 'lost' souls who 'feed off' the energies of those who 'follow' them, who in effect serve as their spirit-battery charging 'devices', the same way as earthly 'performers' get a boost from and so, in effect, feed of the 'attention' and 'devotion' of their 'audiences', I suppose.

Their teachings don't emphasize and, as a result of emphasizing other things, often distract people from contemplating and following up on their understanding(s) of the nature, importance and potential of Love of Conjoint Life, i.e. of what I call Communion with others and All, IOW - again IMO.

Not so in your case, obviously.

High-Five, Soul-Bro!
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