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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Islam Faith

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  #21  
Old 09-11-2015, 01:45 PM
TheImmortal TheImmortal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
What a waste of breath.



Because Jesus said it, my voice is irrelevant. That's the real message innit.



All this about Jesus and scriptures indicates to me that 'resonates' does indeed pertain to the world views.

Thank you for sharing. I hear what you are saying.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2015, 02:39 PM
TheImmortal TheImmortal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight
TheImmortal

794
Narrated Anas: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

from Quran : Only (the) recompense (for) those who wage war (against) Allah and His Messenger and strive in the earth spreading corruption (is) that they be killed or they be crucified or be cut off their hands and their feet of opposite sides or they be exiled from the land. That (is) for them disgrace in the world and for them in the Hereafter (is) a punishment great.


that is the punishment from Quran
for those who " spread corruption "
notice that those who spread corruption
can be applied to muslims and non-muslims
as some muslims are well capable of spreading corruption

this verse hold conditions of when such punishment is given
is when person wage war on allah and his messanger
and spread corruption on earth aka tyranny . oppression . etc etc

I found one verse in the Qu'ran about the cutting off of hands and there are alternate interpretations other than the obvious physical cutting off of hands. The choice of words may not be the best or something may be lacking in the actual translation or, worse still, it is what it appears to be and is being used to justify this process on a more widespread basis than originally intended despite repentance.

How do you interpret it such verbiage ?

http://misconceptions-about-islam.co...ands-theft.htm

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall mark, cut, or cut-off their hands/means as a recompense for what they earned, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful. [5:38-39]"
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2015, 03:07 PM
sky sky is offline
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What your looking for is sura 5:33.

Look at the one before and the one following to get a better understanding.

I am not Muslim but I am interested like you to try and understand all Religions so if I post any wrong info: its my lack of knowledge not malice
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2015, 09:41 PM
TheImmortal TheImmortal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
What your looking for is sura 5:33.

Look at the one before and the one following to get a better understanding.

I am not Muslim but I am interested like you to try and understand all Religions so if I post any wrong info: its my lack of knowledge not malice

Thanks for identifying surah 5:33 from the Qu-ran. It's very disappointing to confirm that Mohammed's "revelations from God" may not be as pure as I had hoped with these injunctions to execute, crucify, and cut off the arms and legs of all who wage war against God and his Messenger.


Even the Biblical David, who is one of my favorites, fell from purity when he lusted for Bathsheba. Mohammed may not have been as perfect as his followers believe him to be. I'm now wondering whether Mohammed changed as Islam became a major power with him as the unquestioned Messenger of God. Apparently, no one is perfect and that's not really surprising. Nonetheless, what I'm reading is very disappointing.
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2015, 03:55 AM
Please Leave Me Please Leave Me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImmortal
Could you refer me to the Surah and verse where that passage is , as I want to read the passage in context. There is nothing like this in the teachings of Lord Jesus and it is giving me a completely different view of the Prophet of Islam.

al-Ma`idah 5:33

because the teaching of Jesus
are nothing but people's edition and own agendas written into bible
the bible got hundred of thousands of versions
to each group some accepted some are not
meaning that people cherry pick what they like or don't
and write it out of bible .. there is no such thing as teaching of Jesus
there is only what certain group wanted from teaching of jesus
in Islam there is no version of Quran

may i remind you .. the OP is about how authentic Hadiths are
which is what am answering
not what teaching of Mohammad or Jesus
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"And when the waves overwhelm them like the dark shadows they call upon Allah for help with pure devotion and when He brings them safety, some of them still doubtful and none denies Our clear signs but every very perfidious very ungrateful one.."
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  #26  
Old 10-11-2015, 03:59 AM
Please Leave Me Please Leave Me is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImmortal
I found one verse in the Qu'ran about the cutting off of hands and there are alternate interpretations other than the obvious physical cutting off of hands. The choice of words may not be the best or something may be lacking in the actual translation or, worse still, it is what it appears to be and is being used to justify this process on a more widespread basis than originally intended despite repentance.

How do you interpret it such verbiage ?

http://misconceptions-about-islam.co...ands-theft.htm

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall mark, cut, or cut-off their hands/means as a recompense for what they earned, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful. [5:38-39]"

original post .. how authentic hadiths are
i can see where this is going

the teaching of Jesus in the bible
or so what people claim are teaching of jesus
show such similar ways of punishment and war conducts

but like i said am not going that road again
you asked about how authentic the Hadith is
i gave prove it's authentic based on Quranic verse
so you had your answer

i have no intention into derailing topic into another topic
when we agree the Hadith is authentic
we move on to another topic .. and we talk how fair the punishment is
then when we agree it's fair .. we move on to see similar teaching in bible
all depends on how ordered you are
am willing to discuss the matters but point by point and each in it's own topic
not jumping points before agreeing to the first here ( which is hadiths are authentic )
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  #27  
Old 10-11-2015, 07:56 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImmortal
Thanks for identifying surah 5:33 from the Qu-ran. It's very disappointing to confirm that Mohammed's "revelations from God" may not be as pure as I had hoped with these injunctions to execute, crucify, and cut off the arms and legs of all who wage war against God and his Messenger.


Even the Biblical David, who is one of my favorites, fell from purity when he lusted for Bathsheba. Mohammed may not have been as perfect as his followers believe him to be. I'm now wondering whether Mohammed changed as Islam became a major power with him as the unquestioned Messenger of God. Apparently, no one is perfect and that's not really surprising. Nonetheless, what I'm reading is very disappointing.



If you look for a translation of the Sura 5:33 it might help you understand it a little easier.
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2015, 04:31 PM
TheImmortal TheImmortal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
If you look for a translation of the Sura 5:33 it might help you understand it a little easier.

I've read several translations of surah 5:33 and I believe that I do have an understanding of it.

To get back to the original post, you have pointed out that the content of the hadiths that reference cutting off of hands/feet, crucifixions, and so on do have a basis in the Koran and, in that sense, they are "authentic". I've just never read a biography of the Prophet where those aspects of his life/practices were highlighted or even mentioned.

Needless to say, it has changed my understanding of The Prophet as this is a side of him that I had not seen before and that is why I initially questioned the authenticity of the hadiths.

Thanks for your input. It was definitely helpful and illuminating.
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  #29  
Old 11-11-2015, 02:59 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImmortal
I've read several translations of surah 5:33 and I believe that I do have an understanding of it

To get back to the original post, you have pointed out that the content of the hadiths that reference cutting off of hands/feet, crucifixions, and so on do have a basis in the Koran and, in that sense, they are "authentic". I've just never read a biography of the Prophet where those aspects of his life/practices were highlighted or even mentioned.

Needless to say, it has changed my understanding of The Prophet as this is a side of him that I had not seen before and that is why I initially questioned the authenticity of the hadiths.

Thanks for your input. It was definitely helpful and illuminating.



If you read the Sura before and the one after you will see the contraditions so then you can look for info:. on misquoted violent verses.
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2015, 08:02 PM
TheImmortal TheImmortal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
If you read the Sura before and the one after you will see the contraditions so then you can look for info:. on misquoted violent verses.

I actually did what you suggested and, in addition, I raised the subject with a local Imam and his Muslim students. They were able to address my concerns in a way that posters other than you were not able to do.

Thanks for you input.

As far as I'm concerned, this issue is closed.
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