3 years have passed

[madcat]

Thanks everyone for your answers and comments !

Iamthat, I very much agree with your vision of the universe . I think all beliefs come from one general truth, and your interpretation seems one of the least objectionable.

John32241, the fact that we are loved by others is true.

ClearBlueSky I agree that I do not think consciousness was stumbled upon by evolution, what does that say though ? That there is something more to biology and physics, but what ? Also, i am relaxed, these are not questions that make me anxious, I m just curious ;)

Youngnostic, i will definitly read nietzsche as soon as i can, i have tried to read thus spoke zarathustra but i honestly had a hard time getting threw the first three pages, i ll try again though.

The necromener , i disagree, i do not believe that truth is subjective, but thats just my choice.

Wstein god neednt be all virtuous and all generous, that is just what I thought a classic god was... I cant justify the need for an evil god. If you speak of a more general concept of something greater than us, i cannot say that i do not believe.

Lorelyen and iamthat, i see what you mean but how can you argue that believing in the big bang and believing in creationism is the same thing? The big bang theory has so much scientific studies indicating towards it.

Baile, haha thanks for noticing, yes i ve been a lot better and a lot happier, i will try to read some good esoteric litterature, can you recommend any?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by madcat

The necromener , i disagree, i do not believe that truth is subjective, but thats just my choice.

Then that becomes your truth and not mine doesn't it? You choose to be an atheist. I choose to be a theist and God chooses to exist beyond choice.

[youngnostic]

If Thus Spoke Zarathustra is not your tea, I suggest reading The Book of Mirdad; I learned English through it, and it is on equal terms with Thus Spoke Zarathustra to me; except, unfortunately, it has a G-d claim.
"When with men, I am a G-d, when with G-d, I am a Man" -- Mirdad
"To a G-d seeking Heart all paths lead to G-d." -- Mirdad
but check it out if you want something extremely eloquent to polish your english; even a native speaker can benefit from this eloquent masterpiece, and perhaps ponder the G-d question , as that work summarizes the spiritual path.
Again, I must plant a seed of caution and say this isn't for everyone, and it's not meant to be.
Namaskar.

[youngnostic]

I also understand that belief in G-d is a belief... it can't be proven... but it can be experienced... and here's the tricky part: the key to experiencing G-d is exactly by being an Atheist.
If you go from being a believer in G-d, in a sense that, "He" is somewhere up in the sky, then you're creating an image and a gap whereas G-d is omnipresent so he must be in you as well... but the so-called "believers" are worse than an atheist because they break the original commandment in the Old Testament which says "Do not make a Graven Image" and when the majority of these Orthodox Christians (not saying that you are or were one) believe in a Mr.G-d in the sky, then obviously they will never connect to themselves and G-d in them.
The irony is that, atheism is the key towards find G-d everywhere, including yourself.
So atheism, or the death of G-d, is an important stepping stone to becoming indeed g-dless and seeing that state of being for indeed that which the Prophets have called G-d is "A state of Pure Being" and when you're an atheist, you don't believe, you experience directly that state of being in yourself and around you.
aka. The Kingdom of Heaven; aka Christ Consciousness.

So the idea here, is that you don't need to believe in G-d... as you advance on your path, you'll experience that state of being... belief is obsolete and arbitrary... we're all filled with that Gnosis that knows this state of pure consciousness pure being... pure awareness.. and the atheists are closer to it than the believers, cuz the believers have an image in their mind that they're worshipping, while the atheists are open to the experience, any experience, and it will come, as it does to me, it will to you. Just keep an honest, and of course, open mind.

Namaskar.

Sat Naam.

[7luminaries]

Madcat -- there is so much to our journey...as long as you still possess the fire and the passion to know, and to seek, IMO all is good. The true scientist IMO is just as you say...potentially open to all, in the seeking for knowledge. And even then, allow an infinity of room for unknown, error, and mystery.

Here is something I wrote a few weeks ago on the thread on Individual Origin in response to Jyotir (but I don't think Jyotir saw it). I thought of you in connection to it...I saw that same burning desire to know. Yourself, this existence, What Is...and even the unknowable which cannot as yet be fully grasped or apprehended. And still, we desire to know. It is a core aspect of the purest authentic love, IMO. The desire for truth and to be aligned with the core of who we are, at centre (for me these all go together).

I wish you the best on your continuing journey...and I hope something in this recent experience of mine resonates with you in some way:

Hi there Jyotir :)

Hahaha... Yes. That's for certain. I had a dream recently where l was there with a very ordinary looking woman as she experienced something she didn't understand. What l realised was a transition into death, which both confused and then terrified her as she understood death as non existence. Since she was some sort of AI, she had been told that there was nothing eternal of her apart from her AI core and the vessel. Instead she was always told that her core and her vessel could be sustained indefinitely through self repair and or replacement.

But somehow that is not what happened. She had some sort of system failure that was beyond anything the technology could address, and they were completely unable to recover her consciousness from any of the systems, cloud, or similar. And would have had to replace it with an earlier version from at or near her point of origin. Lacking everything she had built for herself as an individual with her particular experiences.

She may have been some sort of cyborg... She was essentially contracted to perform the duties of a partner, in some future or futuristic place and she was contractually obligated to fulfill her duties, else risk reassignment, conditioning, or termination. Point was she believed that ultimate system failure meant she ceased to exist. Once she was able to accept annihilation, she let go and everything went dark. But then there was a light far in the distance. And she crossed over.

Apparently in witnessing this and experiencing it with her, I somehow got stuck over the threshold, of the tunnel... Not of the light. I fell asleep and I was not able to wake up until my close soul family member called out to me, luckily , at which point I felt myself being roughly dumped back into my waking consciousness, like being kicked down the stairs. And then I was able to wake up and sit up.

There's more to this, but the main universal point l took that everyone can take from this, is that there is nowhere that Source is not. And wherever there is self-aware consciousness in some self sustaining form, a soul can potentially come in. And that soul will return to Source... It is not ours to control or manufacture or to own or possess like chattel. No matter what else you may be told, as she had been.

I won't recommend this experience to anyone. It was terrifying for her and physically harsh for me. I still feel like I'm not fully back in the body. But it led to some moving and wonderful discussions between me, my close soul family member, and one of the guides. And it all really spoke to my soul. And there was also something very moving about her realisation that she actually was more than the collection of her system core and her parts, however it had come about. Very moving indeed.

I wonder if this is the same for humanity who believe similarly? That they innocently accept what is, even when it contradicts all they've believed? Or do some maintain their perspective of separation long after they cross over, ~like 'what dreams may come'? (hell, as in separation from source?) Is it commonplace or uncommon?

Anyway I think this still fits with origins... She was returning after her existence to, you know, continue onto the next leg of her journey. Toward Source.

Peace & blessings
7L

[HereAndNow]

Originally Posted by madcat

But I havent found as of now a pseudo-rational reason not to believe in spirit guides, reincarnation, ghosts, faeries, whatever ! I would like to let myself believe, it s fascinating and intriging, but I m on the quest for truth...

Hi madcat,
I sometimes think that our human brains/minds are totally incapable of understanding and explaining the universe because the universe is so much more complicated (or, well, multi-dimensional or whatever).
And therefore whatever we think of the universe is wrong ... or at best partial knowledge - knowledge about a very small aspect of the whole.
Osho says somewhere that whatever we can SAY about truth is not truth. Words (rational ideas, concepts etc) can only point towards truth, but never express it.
And therefore I think it doesn't really matter what I believe. As long as it makes me a better person. As long as it just feels the right thing to believe.

And regarding Nietzsche's Zarathustra - I tried to read it some years ago but I found it quite boring and also very difficult to read.
But then I read it with Osho's commentary from mystic's point of view, and found it incredibly interesting.
First part:
http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download..._Can_Dance.pdf
Second part:
http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download...ng_Prophet.pdf

Peace!

[Hemera]

Hi Madcat

After many years completely devoted to my spiritual faith/beliefs, I have reached a point where I don't really believe in anything. I can't really say I'm an atheist as such, but I sympathise with that viewpoint more than I ever thought I could. I think, like you, I'm assessing what can be known and what is just a belief system and can't be proven. Also, I'm more outward looking and have embraced what it means to experience life and embody the qualities I feel drawn to, such as kindness and compassion. I'm not so focused on what I believe these days as I am on living and being with others in a way that feels good and nourishing to myself and them.

I don't think that anything I used to believe in was wrong in anyway, it's all just a path. I'm where I am now for a reason and I'm going with it. Maybe the same can be said for where you are? I've given up trying to fight it and regain what I percieve I've 'lost' and accept where life is taking me now.