Does God really have anyone to blame but Himself?

[Revya]

Originally Posted by A human Being

I've been thinking, if God is all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, then surely he must've known what would happen if He gave Man free will? So how can he really get the hump about our misdeeds, if he knew all along that we'd sin, given half the chance? Presumably He is the master of His own destiny, or is he just as beholden to fate as are the rest of us?

*

Okay, second question, following on from this assumption of omnipotence - if God is all-powerful and God is also love, then surely He's not going to allow His beloved subjects to suffer in Hell for all eternity? Surely if He's so loving, He will use his absolute power to save them from such a cruel fate? Or this an extreme example of 'tough love'?

Surely if you're a sinner you have to accept that you're not one of God's people. God does not delight in wickedness. Secondly and more importantly, free will gives choice but God did not desire for you to engage in wickedness with your free will. he expected there would be those that would not listen, but he had to give the gift of free will so that those who make the correct choice can be counted among his chosen.

Take it from a muck futhering demon, hell is very real and God will burn people if it suits his motives. That's not to say that even the hellfire doesn't serve a purpose. Very rarely is someone given the eternal kind of hellfire. There are plenty of people who burned in the fire that came out cleansed of their sins and were accepted into heaven as good Christians. The suffering of hell comes about from a lack of Godly thinking. the fire is nothing more than a manifestation of your inner anger being projected unto you, and it will end the moment you can stop your hate and accept inner peace. and that's the truth.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Revya

Surely if you're a sinner you have to accept that you're not one of God's people. God does not delight in wickedness. Secondly and more importantly, free will gives choice but God did not desire for you to engage in wickedness with your free will. he expected there would be those that would not listen, but he had to give the gift of free will so that those who make the correct choice can be counted among his chosen.

Take it from a muck futhering demon, hell is very real and God will burn people if it suits his motives. That's not to say that even the hellfire doesn't serve a purpose. Very rarely is someone given the eternal kind of hellfire. There are plenty of people who burned in the fire that came out cleansed of their sins and were accepted into heaven as good Christians. The suffering of hell comes about from a lack of Godly thinking. the fire is nothing more than a manifestation of your inner anger being projected unto you, and it will end the moment you can stop your hate and accept inner peace. and that's the truth.

Most 'sinners' whatever that word may mean, probably don't want to be one of God's people, seeing how he has failed to persuade. Probably because what you say about wickedness he practises himself - by burning people. That's wicked - really wicked and so he is no better than those witch burners of the middle ages who did the same in his name. We can thus assume that the piece of psychology you so converted in the last sentence to explain the value of being burned could also apply to God. Why not - it's the same thing.

[Revya]

Originally Posted by Busby

Most 'sinners' whatever that word may mean, probably don't want to be one of God's people, seeing how he has failed to persuade. Probably because what you say about wickedness he practises himself - by burning people. That's wicked - really wicked and so he is no better than those witch burners of the middle ages who did the same in his name. We can thus assume that the piece of psychology you so converted in the last sentence to explain the value of being burned could also apply to God. Why not - it's the same thing.

Well you could argue that God's justice defies human standards of decency. having been to hell myself I can say a lot of it comes down to forgiveness and God's lack of ability to forgive big time sinners until he's made them understand the very suffering they brought about on others. You can't really argue it's wicked to burn someone like Hitler because truth be told he's the reason so many people ended up in those ovens. In Hitler's case it comes across as just retribution for the suffering caused to others. But God does forgive everyone in time. Long as they changed in their time in hell.

[adamm[]]

Originally Posted by A human Being

I've been thinking, if God is all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, then surely he must've known what would happen if He gave Man free will? So how can he really get the hump about our misdeeds, if he knew all along that we'd sin, given half the chance? Presumably He is the master of His own destiny, or is he just as beholden to fate as are the rest of us?

*

Okay, second question, following on from this assumption of omnipotence - if God is all-powerful and God is also love, then surely He's not going to allow His beloved subjects to suffer in Hell for all eternity? Surely if He's so loving, He will use his absolute power to save them from such a cruel fate? Or this an extreme example of 'tough love'?

why has christianity become fact rather than the mythological fiction or "unknown phenomenon that man best tried to describe 2k years ago" that it truley is.


what ever happened back in those days for people to write what they did was clearly recorded poorly or perhaps those who recorded it didnt fully understand what it was that they were experiencing.

[Shivani Devi]

You see my friend, God only gave us the illusion of having free-will. We think we have it, but we do not. The proof of this statement can be found in the second line of the Lord's Prayer - "Thy will be done".

We think we are independent from God and have our own will to do whatever we please, but it's like me playing 'The Sims' on my computer, with me being their 'God' - at least I am a deity in the land of the holy Simoleon....or am I still under the influence of The Triforce? who knows.

Anyway, even though the dice gets thrown, there's no way to predict on which number it will land, and the dice has no free-will to land on whatever number it wants to either - and yes, God plays dice....we are the die.

As for Heaven and Hell, we each go to a place that serves our needs and sins the best after death...a glutton will go to a planet full of food, a promiscuous person will go to 'planet nymphomania' while a devoted soul will become one with their chosen deity.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

As for Heaven and Hell, we each go to a place that serves our needs and sins the best after death...a glutton will go to a planet full of food, a promiscuous person will go to 'planet nymphomania' while a devoted soul will become one with their chosen deity.

That's like some new-age version of religious sin-and-punishment doctrine. What's the difference?

How about this: As eternal souls, we return to our benevolent and beneficent Spirit home. We assess our previous life, and make whatever soul choices are necessary for next lifetime, based on the karmic repercussions from our previous life and lives.

[icebluefaerie]

My beliefs on this:

God knows the results of every reality that we could choose, or whatever path we decide to go down. So, that being said. It is up to us to choose our own reality and make our own decisions. We often get nudges and advice to take such and such a path, but so many people block out their inner knowing and dismiss it. However, it's never too late to go down the right path no matter how far down a certain road you may be.

Why doesn't God step in and fix everything? Different beliefs:

I feel some people don't truly want the help, blame God, or don't see it when God does send them a message to begin with. I don't think God pouts about this and refuses to ever help them again. I see it more as the lower your frequency, you are less likely to hear any kind of truth. The more you dwell on negative emotions, are you able to hear from God? It's like living in a house with loud music turned at full blast, expecting to hear the other person shouting at you from the other room. Some people refuse to listen at all.

But what about people who cry out to God and nothing happens? I can not speak for every person and situation. All I know is often times we do not see what goes on behind the scenes and how God does help and change others. Other times, we go down the tougher road: suffering reveals people's true colors and what they are capable of becoming and changing for the better. Some of the most inspiring life changing souls in this world are the one's who stepped out of the darkness, into the light, and stopped blaming God for everything, even when they have been through sadder, unfair justices more so than anyone can imagine.

If God stepped in and did change everything, would we really see people for who they are? There is strength and revealing in pain. I believe God wants to know what people are willing to stand up for. Yes he can see, but life changes when its up to us to CHOOSE our own realities. It's much like having a friend who says "Oh, I love you no matter what!" Only to have something difficult happen in your life and that friend abandons you at the drop of the hat. Many people have bailed out.

Also, I don't see God as some random angry man in the sky throwing lightning bolts at us whenever we sin or do something wrong, waiting for us to screw up. To me, God is pure love and lives at such a higher level of being, that is why he sent Jesus in human form, so that we could HAVE that connection with him/her/source.

That is my take on the subject.

[Internal Queries]

blame blame blame. may as well blame the sun for being hot and the rain for being wet if you're going to blame your self for being who and what you are and "God" for "creating" you as Is.

meh! @ nasty deity constructs that use threats of a horror filled afterlife as a coercion to conformity.

[kundalinikid]

As I understand from my meditations things would not grow/evolve if there were not adversity and difficulties. If everything was perfect and God always gave people what they wanted the world would be near robotic. The ability to sin is free will also.

I believe the Bible touches on that here:
"Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction."

[Baile]

Originally Posted by A human Being

I've been thinking, if God is all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful, then surely he must've known what would happen if He gave Man free will?

It's a matter of understanding. Your understanding is backwards. Human beings created a being they call "God," who they claim is all-seeing and all-knowing. So if any one or any thing is to "blame," it's human beings and their "God" beliefs. The free will part you've got half-right. We have free will, yes, but nobody gave it to us. Free will is the birthright of every soul-spirit being.