Beasts - small and large

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

Thanks. What I hear you saying is you are selective about your energies and interests, pragmatic about where to devote your time, whilst recognizing the condition of free will and development in the Earth.

JL

Yes, exactly! you got it!

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

Shivani, I understand that if we were to take the long perspective then why bother? But we live now, in this moment, in this world.. so I think it's in the interests of all if we make the best out of it and appreciate what we've been given. Maybe we lack the right people, or maybe we lack a nice place, but that isn't the fault of the ''physical universe''. It's our own doing, collectively, how we deal with our 'resources' and have created societies and continue to be in the process of commodifying relationships, places, etc.

Even if we can't climb the mountain.. who cares.. you may as well try with a smile on your face. Maybe it's all just some test we're meant to overcome, and the test isn't just to ''be spiritual'' and sit down quietly, but also to embrace our positive characteristics in a more practical way.. such as helping others from doom and torture. Maybe we'll not make a big difference as individuals, but if we all think in such a way then nothing will..

Descartes said ''I think therefore I am'' and that is perhaps insulting in a spiritual community, but the over indulgence in the concept of 'suffering' however, and the accompanied spiritual explanations, such as; Adam's sin, karma, attachment, demonic conspiracies, etc. all show that there's still focus on mind wanting an answer that is satisfactory, and avoiding action. It's what we've created, it's not God. We are in the right and entitled to feel sadness, but we're also entitled to do something about it. Where is the most obvious truth that we are simply here and should act and take responsibility for ourselves and each other if we want to improve our lives and our world...?

Forget the ''ego'', the ''attachments'', the ''desires''...

It's just concepts. You can enjoy the company of others and be entangled in the beauty of the world, and also meditate and seek peace within. There need not be a dichotomy. The dichotomy exists in your mind only. There's nothing stopping you from having a good and enjoyable time in this world and also doing your spirituality..

Of course, there's figures like Jesus and Buddha meditating for long periods of time, but these are exceptional paths to walk. Is it what we truly want... or is it a means to shield ourselves from fear..? I can understand there can be attachments and desires that can get in the way, but throwing all of it overboard isn't needed. Though if you really want to, authentically want it at your core, then I suppose a monastery is the way to go ((few distractions)).. but you're not in a monastery, so maybe find a bit of peace and balance.. within and outside...

Very quickly and briefly, if you haven't been through what I go through on a regular basis, it will be impossible for you to understand it.

Ever since young childhood, I have had this "vibe" which puts people off, repulses them and turns them away...and this is not my fault! it is also totally subconscious and I have no conscious control over it...I remind myself a lot of "Caspar the friendly ghost"...others are terrified and feel intimidated by who I am inside! This is an observation, not an affirmation.

Oh yes, I have tried reading and implementing "How to win Friends and Influence People"...I have been to psychologists, psychiatrists, Self Esteem groups (where I am still shunned and people will talk to everyvody else and not me)....it is like I am forever on the outside looking in and there is no "connection" there...not for want of me trying to establish one.

However, in a Church setting...in an Ashram or Monastery setting, the story is much different for me...and yes, I really should stop being so bloody agoraphobic and go and actually join a place that has similar interests to myself...like the Theosophical Society, or the Shiva temple in Sydney where I may find "nice people" who can deal with my weird energy.

Yes, occasionally I will walk to the beach, appreciate the beauty in nature...but I often allow the natural beauty of the world pass me by because I have become desensitised to it...like a TV show that I have watched over and over and over...it no longer "does it" for me and I don't know how to get that back either...seeing the world with "fresh eyes" as they have been dimmed by years of total indifference.

Yes, once you have fallen into the pit of indifference and apathy, there is NO way out! death or salvation are the only ways left.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, exactly! you got it!

Pragmatic and sensible advice, thanks SD

Originally Posted by janielee

For the record of this post, humans are also beasts, as in beings

I watched "Humanity" yesterday - a Ricky Gervais comedy stand up show.

And I laughed, but at the end he spoke about a dog "festival" in China where they eat a lot of dogs.

Westerners eat cows and pigs and chickens who also have feelings, so right.

But he mentioned that in this event, they torture the dogs. Beat them, burn them, strip their skin alive while the dogs scream.


JL

There is a yulin dog meat festival in China.
I looked at several videos that protesters put online and none of the top ones showed any out of the ordinary practices of keeping and dispatching and butchering of animals.No burning alive, No skinning alive, No boiling alive.
Are dogs crowded in cages and handled like a dog catcher handles a dog to not be bitten? Yes.
I have no doubt that abuses happen, but if this was a festival and mass amounts of dogs were being beaten and burned alive or boiled alive I think protesters videos would have shown this.
I did not do an extensive search. I only watched all the top videos that came up on a search.
I am neither for or against their festivals.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

but what I do genuinely think is that unless one has transformed and transcended (internally) - it's still the ebb of the world and who knows? "Help" that comes with condemnation, narrow perspectives, judgement and other forms of baggage may even hinder, that is why it's important to clear out one's own house first, in my opinion. "There but for the Grace of God go I" - swap out a few beliefs and thoughts, and conditions, and who are each of us?

I disagree..
You make it sound as if care and helping others should be left to the spiritually enlightened, so empathy and compassion become an elitist thing..

But it really isn't. It's there for all of us, it's in us. You don't need to be spiritually enlightened to understand that eating and torturing companions is wrong, or that you can love others, care for your baby, and what else have you. I repeat.. you do not need to be spiritually enlightened to do this..

You talk about cleaning the house. Lets start with the basics, considering you're into eastern teachings. In many paths, the first principle is Ahimsa (nonviolence). This is big in Buddhism too. That principle is already very hard to follow. It requires nonviolence of act, thought, and speech. Who can do this..? I doubt any of us. But at the very least we can drastically reduce our violent actions, for instance by not participating in these tortures and senseless slaughter, let alone of animals that go to great lengths trusting and befriending others..

And this topic is just the tip of the iceberg concerning these countries...

[ocean breeze]

My dyslexia kicked in and i read this thread as "breasts - small and large." lol

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

My dyslexia kicked in and i read this thread as "breasts - small and large." lol

/////////

Originally Posted by Altair

And this topic is just the tip of the iceberg concerning these countries...

And I repeat the road to hell is paved with good intentions, of course everyone can be kind, help, support, reduce suffering for self and other - NO-ONE SAID anything different - but until the spiritual work is also done, there is a risk that those good works are just another wash and shine. Particularly for the more self righteous of us.

I see you've singled out "these countries" - violence starts with separation, I think. Criticizing another for what we still have or is possibly not ideal.

Namaste,

JL

[Altair]

Originally Posted by janielee

And I repeat the road to hell is paved with good intentions, of course everyone can be kind, help, support, reduce suffering for self and other - NO-ONE SAID anything different - but until the spiritual work is also done, there is a risk that those good works are just another wash and shine. Particularly for the more self righteous of us.

I don't believe the spiritually enlightened have a monopoly on love and care. You're entitled to your beliefs, I simply disagree. I doubt you, or anyone else here, is actually spiritually enlightened - as in having transcended all desire, attachment.

You come up with this topic, you seem to care. But by your own 'logic' I'm confused if you're even allowed to.. ;-)
So are you an enlightened guru who has transcended all desire and attachment?
Are you beyond any doubt, only 'good' and without fault? if not, then your ''care'' and ''love'' is just a ''road to hell''.....

You tell people such things in person? When they are flawed human beings but love their babies or dogs?

Originally Posted by janielee

I see you've singled out "these countries" - violence starts with separation, I think. Criticizing another for what we still have or is possibly not ideal.
Namaste,JL

If you don't like it perhaps you never should have brought forward this topic, as dog eating isn't universal and only happens in specific countries..
I don't see political correctness as relevant here. You don't look a caged dog in the eye saying ''Cultural sensitivities are more important than your life!''

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't believe the spiritually enlightened have a monopoly on love and care.

Once again, I never said that. As to your beliefs, that's fine. As to others being spiritually enlightened, I never said I was. As to "others" of course there are - some supremely so - beyond your imagination in fact.

JL