Stillborn

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

A wishy washy mistruth that would have a crushing impact on those who have lost a child through stillbirth.

Michael Newton is a hypnotist.

As I said, there have been many cases of a person, usually a child, undergoing a NDE and meeting a 'stillborn' brother or sister they didn't know they had. The parents, to their amazement, later confirm that they did indeed have a stillborn child in the years before.
If the spirit did not attach itself at the moment of conception this would not occur, but it does.

Silver Birch was emphatic on this point:

"From the moment of conception the spirit has incarnated into the mother's womb"

and again

"From the moment of conception, there is the beginning of an individual, who will never die and continue to grow in my world."

as someone just said, a stillborn child is usually near or full term, so that has nothing to do with it......spirit can "guide' but they are certainly not infallible and can only speak from their own level, experience and understanding....so, silver birch is not infallible........ Just like we can OBE during sleep, so can spirit come and go from the fetus......some may find it a bit boring in fact.....

Originally Posted by Kaere

It is strange to me because human form is a human thing and spirit is not human. Why should water hold the shape of a cup once it's been poured out?

I feel that as spirit we go back to formlessness. We may at some point see ourselves and others with form but that only lasts until we let go of the need for it. I don't see spirit visitors with bodies, I encounter them as light or even just perceive thoughts. As spirit, if I need a vehicle of expression, then I will incarnate into a vehicle. But I am not the vehicle, it's just a temporary shape... a Kaere suit.

As always, just my opinion.

I believe that we have a spiritual/ethereal body that we can use when we want to or need to use it....it is not manadatory but useful for those who are only on the first couple of levels of conscienseness.......or want to appear in a vision, dream visit or whatever so that we can recognise them.......yes,more often they appear as orbs or light or shadows.....

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Juanita

as someone just said, a stillborn child is usually near or full term, so that has nothing to do with it......spirit can "guide' but they are certainly not infallible and can only speak from their own level, experience and understanding....so, silver birch is not infallible........ Just like we can OBE during sleep, so can spirit come and go from the fetus......some may find it a bit boring in fact.....

I think people have the intellectual capacity to make up their own mind on the matter.
Maybe the developing child is, as you imply, a soulless zombie for the early part of its development.
Maybe the spirit does get 'a bit bored' now and then, and flit in and out of the developing child as it pleases.
Maybe Juanita and Mr Newton are a more reliable source of accurate information than Silver Birch - and other disincarnate spiritual teachers who say the same as him, and some of the most experienced, noted and authoriative psychics & Spiritualists who also say the same.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

I think people have the intellectual capacity to make up their own mind on the matter.
Maybe the developing child is, as you imply, a soulless zombie for the early part of its development.
Maybe the spirit does get 'a bit bored' now and then, and flit in and out of the developing child as it pleases.
Maybe Juanita and Mr Newton are a more reliable source of accurate information than Silver Birch - and other disincarnate spiritual teachers who say the same as him, and some of the most experienced, noted and authoriative psychics & Spiritualists who also say the same.

Maybe they do and maybe they don't---maybe they just "believe" what others have to say on the subject.......the developing child is not a zombie for heavens sake, but a "fetus" which as yet cannot think, form opinions and is still unaware of it's own existence in any sufficient manner---like a newly planted flower seed.......Opinions and beliefs are just that---opinions and beliefs, even for silver birtch and emmanuael and spirit in general........I have read dr. Newtons's books -- 4 of them, altho I would only recommend the first two...and his adventures in regressing people's superconsicenceness to their lives between lives is fascinating, but even here his subjects can only relate what they can see, hear or feel through their 3-dimentional minds.....

Psychics, Mediums and intuitives can only relate what "they" see, hear or feel which is often colored by their own religious and cultural beliefs.......Juanita is not an expert on anything, but she is well read on the subject and has formed her "own" beliefs and opinions.............

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Juanita

1) the developing child is not a zombie for heavens sake, but a "fetus" 2) which as yet cannot think, form opinions and is still unaware of it's own existence in any sufficient manner---like a newly planted flower seed.......

1) As you say it is a child, it is alive. It was you who claimed it was void of spirit.

2) You say 'cannot think, form opinions' etc. How do you know what it's level of consciousness/awareness is?

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Juanita

Opinions and beliefs are just that---opinions and beliefs, even for silver birtch and emmanuael and spirit in general........I have read dr. Newtons's books -- 4 of them, altho I would only recommend the first two...and his adventures in regressing people's superconsicenceness to their lives between lives is fascinating, but even here his subjects can only relate what they can see, hear or feel through their 3-dimentional minds.....

Psychics, Mediums and intuitives can only relate what "they" see, hear or feel which is often colored by their own religious and cultural beliefs.......Juanita is not an expert on anything, but she is well read on the subject and has formed her "own" beliefs and opinions.............

There is a difference between opinion and knowledge.

A source of proven wisdom i.e.Silver Birch, deserves to be heard.

When one reputable source proclaims something it is something worthy of note and thought, when numerous reputable sources say the same thing it elevates to the matter to an entirely different status.

You'd recommend two of the Newton books...but not the other two. If you trust him as a reliable source, why not recommend all four?

I'm wondering what you'd say to the parents of a stillborn child, be it an actual stillbirth or pre-natal? Your stance is decidedly wishy washy. May or may not. To my mind, you've corrupted a profound and deeply comforting spiritual truth into an issue of pot luck, which helps nobody.

[alamode]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Maybe the developing child is, as you imply, a soulless zombie for the early part of its development.
Maybe the spirit does get 'a bit bored' now and then, and flit in and out of the developing child as it pleases.
Maybe Juanita and Mr Newton are a more reliable source of accurate information than Silver Birch - and other disincarnate spiritual teachers who say the same as him, and some of the most experienced, noted and authoriative psychics & Spiritualists who also say the same.

Instead of "souless zombie" I call it a clump of cells or a pregnancy sac...when the soul hasn't entered the fetus yet. And if we all have free will, which I'm still trying to understand the whole free will thing and is it really an illusion if we chose to do everything before we incarnated... wouldn't it also make sense that we choose to enter the fetus when we are ready? Or does a soul automatically get rushed to enter the pregnancy sac at the moment of conception? Free will to enter the fetus makes more sense to me.

Also, Michael Newton isn't trying to teach anything. He just reports consistencies of what his thousands of patients say when under hypnotic regression and they are all saying the same things about choosing to enter a fetus.

[alamode]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

You'd recommend two of the Newton books...but not the other two. If you trust him as a reliable source, why not recommend all four?

.

I'm assuming because the first two books are the books that answer all the questions about where souls come from, how souls are made, what is a souls life purpose, what happens in between lives, what are soul groups, etc. They are all around spiritual guides for helping to understand spiritual truths. These spiritual truths are what his thousands of patients were all saying, the same exact things.

The third book is a guide for hypnotherapists on how to do life between lives regression therapy.

The fourth book is all actual cases of patients and how LBL therapy helped them.

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

1) As you say it is a child, it is alive. It was you who claimed it was void of spirit.

2) You say 'cannot think, form opinions' etc. How do you know what it's level of consciousness/awareness is?

the fetus is definitely alive, but not on its own, whether spirit has merged with it or not, IMHO.........,.,I do believe that you are adament because of your religious views........am I correct?

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

There is a difference between opinion and knowledge.

A source of proven wisdom i.e.Silver Birch, deserves to be heard.

When one reputable source proclaims something it is something worthy of note and thought, when numerous reputable sources say the same thing it elevates to the matter to an entirely different status.

You'd recommend two of the Newton books...but not the other two. If you trust him as a reliable source, why not recommend all four?

I'm wondering what you'd say to the parents of a stillborn child, be it an actual stillbirth or pre-natal? Your stance is decidedly wishy washy. May or may not. To my mind, you've corrupted a profound and deeply comforting spiritual truth into an issue of pot luck, which helps nobody.

a source of "proven" wisdom???? How so? everything from spirit is worthy of "note" but not always true altho it may be seen as truth by the spirit...

dr. Newtons third book is for practitioners of past lives regression and the 4th is about the graduates who are doing it now..... I don't think you are comprehending what I said at all.......If a child is stillborn or lost in miscarriage, it does "not" mean that spirit had not already melded and become one with the child....It just means that little spirit went back Home....If you see me as wishy washy (how cute) I must be getting to you...and if so, why????..what is the "spiritual" truth that I have corrupted? that spiritual life does not begin at conception????? when you are delving into spiritual issues, you need to leave religion behind, IMO.....