Judaism and claiming to be God

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by Honza

Do you think that Judaism could ever evolve into a state where Jews would be allowed and accepted to call themselves God?

To begin with, in response to your original post, there is no deity named Jehovah in Judaism - never was, never will be. Jehovah is the Germanization of what happens if one mistakenly reads the vowels for Adonai with the letters of the tetragrammaton. The vowels are simply there to remind one to say Adonai instead of trying to pronounce the divine name.

I would be remiss, as well, if I did not tell you that although I am sure you did not mean for it to be so, your statement above comes off as condescending. It's as if I were to ask if Honzaism could ever evolve into a state where Honzaites would allowed to accept that they are not, themselves, G-d.

One of the problems with your question is that there is an unspoken assumption that Judaism is a monolith. It never was. Even in the times of Jesus it was not question of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots because each of those groups was not monolithic in terms of the members. I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere. You would do well to start exploring it. I would also point you to Jay Michaelson's book from a year or two ago "Everything is G-d". If you look for it put the "o" between the "g" and the "d". Michaelson is not a Hasid.

An interesting thing about the Jewish approach is, presuming one accepts the position posited, that this knowledge/awareness is not the end of the trail, it is the just a starting point.

B'shalom,

Petre

[Honza]

Okay, so Jewish mysticism accepts that "everything is God". I guess any kind of mysticism from any religion accepts the same thing. Because such is the nature of mysticism. Christian mystics would accept the same.

The Kabbalah was mentioned in the review of the book recommended. Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism, correct?

I guess the three western main religions i.e. Islam, Judaism and Christianity won't accept such ideas for a long time. But the mystics will.

It is the Kabbalah I must explore...

Hey Honza,

I just thought I would share with you that I have been exploring Kabbalah for about two months now. Amazing insights...

Thanks RabbiO for sharing your insights.

nightowl

Originally Posted by RabbiO

I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

This reminds me of a point my Rabbi made the other night during a lecture. The example was regarding two doctors debating over the treatment of a patient. Essentially, if both doctors were debating altruistically for the sake of the patient, this debate is good and could help improve the patient's treatment. Multiple perspectives can help our understandings and actions so long as the motivation isn't selfish.

So too, it is good to seek the truth and altruistically debate for the sake of Heaven.

-esther

Originally Posted by RabbiO

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere.

I'm not following, can you please help explain?

Thank you,

-esther

If someone says they are God it doesn't mean they are personally God.
They are saying that there is only God and nothing is other than that, in this realization there is no 'I' to be God.
There isn't a wave proclaiming to be the ocean, there is only ocean, expressing through the apparent wave.

Originally Posted by RabbiO

To begin with, in response to your original post, there is no deity named Jehovah in Judaism - never was, never will be. Jehovah is the Germanization of what happens if one mistakenly reads the vowels for Adonai with the letters of the tetragrammaton. The vowels are simply there to remind one to say Adonai instead of trying to pronounce the divine name.

I would be remiss, as well, if I did not tell you that although I am sure you did not mean for it to be so, your statement above comes off as condescending. It's as if I were to ask if Honzaism could ever evolve into a state where Honzaites would allowed to accept that they are not, themselves, G-d.

One of the problems with your question is that there is an unspoken assumption that Judaism is a monolith. It never was. Even in the times of Jesus it was not question of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots because each of those groups was not monolithic in terms of the members. I always try to make clear that most often I am giving a A Jewish viewpoint because on so many issues there is not one viewpoint that can be properly called THE Jewish viewpoint.

One of the major thrusts of Jewish mysticism is panentheism and that thrust is alive and well in the Hasdic movement and elsewhere. You would do well to start exploring it. I would also point you to Jay Michaelson's book from a year or two ago "Everything is G-d". If you look for it put the "o" between the "g" and the "d". Michaelson is not a Hasid.

An interesting thing about the Jewish approach is, presuming one accepts the position posited, that this knowledge/awareness is not the end of the trail, it is the just a starting point.

B'shalom,

Petre

Sometime after my experience I heard a unfamiliar male voice say "adonai". It was out of the blue and I'd never heard anything like that before as it sounded like it was coming from outside myself and no one else was present.

I didn't remember hearing/reading about that word before, though I may have sometime or other. Also, I'd never heard the word before. It was pronounced add-done-I. How is it supposed to be pronounced?

Soooo, I know I asked in another thread, but I can't get to these forums that often (just worked 11 days straight). Why does Judaism write the word God as G-D?

Maybe I heard the word to place a curiosity in my heart? It did, but I didn't pursue it much. I know that it's connected with the word Elohim which could be a plural for God? I didn't hear the word Elohim, but that actually interested me more somehow. Elohim would suggest a "many in One" kind of relationship.

Well, maybe I need to look into the meaning of Adonai more? From what 7illuminaries described it has to do with a particular kind of very close relationship with G-D? I also want to look into "the word". If you could help me with that...where to begin?

Hope I can find this thread again to read your answer.

I'm sorry I guess it's written G-d, hope I haven't offended.

I know I probably seem lazy here for not investigating for myself, but I have little time. I rely quite a bit on the knowledge of strangers.

Is Judaism a "secret" religion for an elite? Can anyone learn it?

Originally Posted by Honza

Many people across the world are now claiming themselves to be God. It is common practice in Hinduism and perhaps Buddhism.

How far are we from Jews claiming to be God too? From claiming that they ARE Jehovah.

It is not common practice for Jews to claim that they are God. Jews practice the discipline of being subservient to God.

But what would happen if some Jews actually claimed that they are Jehovah?

I think there is a difference between calling yourself as an individual god rather then say that we are all part of god... together we form God... I think that is more what is being expressed...

Originally Posted by gentledove

I'm sorry I guess it's written G-d, hope I haven't offended.

I know I probably seem lazy here for not investigating for myself, but I have little time. I rely quite a bit on the knowledge of strangers.

Is Judaism a "secret" religion for an elite? Can anyone learn it?

Hi gentledove, the hyphen is a custom so you haven't offended anyone with that

I would, however, avoid using any of the Holy Names in general conversation.

I guess something is a "secret" if you don't know about it. Learning Torah isn't reserved for an "elite".

For non-Jews learning Torah I would recommend having a look at:
http://www.noahide.org/

Non-Jews are not bound by Torah in the same way, but are very welcome to learn anything that pertains to their relationship with Hashem.

As far as the different names I recommend reading :
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/419,2024029/Why-is-the-name-Elohim-plural.html


http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379815/jewish/Hidden-Mercies.htm

Hope this helps,

-esther