Observer vs Observed

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Well thank you Josephine. I feel that way also. There were mistakes along the way and close calls. However, there is no doubt that I wanted to be like Jesus --i.e. a high brahma charactor-- and do good not evil.


We got whippings with belt but beyond that not really abused as some children have been. I was lucky. I was lucky to born white in USA.


I was lucky that my few mistakes and errors were not too serious. Ive never been arrested or charged or accused of any detrimental to others acitivities, tho some were so dumb I could have indirectly caused harm to others.


All of those happened in my teenage years. I'm sure you can relate.


Relativity is about duality.

.......

[MikeS80]

A better example of duality/seperation that is not necessary than the democrat and republican example I gave in a previous post is the duality/unnecessary separation of vegetarians and meat eaters. Life is life, does not matter if that life is an animal or if that life is a plant. A plant is just as alive as an animal is alive. Just as life is life, food is food. As the old saying goes food is love.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

As the old saying goes food is love.

Kentucky fried chicken = love?

Big mac beef burger = love?

Canned Spam = love?

I watched the movie "The Founder" with m. Keaton, and the two macdonald brothers offered food as love, via their soul practices and standards they lived by.

Yes, they franchised there business for profit but perhaps also to expand their soul practice of loving food in fast way.

Then they got robbed by this dude they tried to keep within their 'food as love' soul practices, but alas, he stole all of their concepts from them, with a monetary gift, else they go broke fighting many years of lawsuits against the monster the set loose against.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Kentucky fried chicken = love?

Big mac beef burger = love?

Canned Spam = love?

I watched the movie "The Founder" with m. Keaton, and the two macdonald brothers offered food as love, via their soul practices and standards they lived by.

Yes, they franchised there business for profit but perhaps also to expand their soul practice of loving food in fast way.

Then they got robbed by this dude they tried to keep within their 'food as love' soul practices, but alas, he stole all of their concepts from them, with a monetary gift, else they go broke fighting many years of lawsuits against the monster the set loose against.

All the food you listed is fast food/processed food. Everyone knows fast food iand proccessed food is not healthy/good for you. Besides, I was not talking about fast food/proccessed food. I was talking about the dualism/seperation of vegitarians and everyone else.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's my impression so long as we are alive and awake we have no choice but to live in the duality of what we experience as existence. I'm not quite sure how one can step outside it into pure non-duality outside of the ultimate mystical experience, and I imagine the people capable of that and also the amount of time they can indulge that state are very, very few and very, very far between. Kind of like when Krishna allowed Arjuna to see the ultimate reality.

It seems to me the best we can do is recognize its nature to some degree and also recognize our true nature and live our lives best we can and based on those realizations. No teacher, guru or mystic I've ever heard actually defines in detail the exact what and how but speaks in metaphor, analogy and simile because it simply can't be intellectualized or put into language. The nitty-gritty requires omniscience and I'm absolutely certain no one living, who has lived or who will live will possess that capacity of knowledge and intellect.

Honestly and as far as I'm concerned I don't worry about the details because it's a distraction and a pointless one. The path is simply to become awakened and taste enlightenment and liberation from suffering, ending the cycle so one will transcend the duality after this life has ended, the deepest and real 'I' no longer being bound to the unreal.

Perhaps my goals aren't lofty enough, but there they are.

Justasimpleguy, what is the root cause of suffering, fear, duality and the rest of the other stuff? The same thing causes morals/morality.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Justasimpleguy, what is the root cause of suffering, fear, duality and the rest of the other stuff? The same thing causes morals/morality.

The root cause of suffering is identification with the impermanent. The reason why it's so difficult to disassociate is the innate nature and tendency of body-mind has to be overcome and put aside and association with something as seemingly insubstantial as awareness has to be embraced. That's no simple feat and mind will never get one there and with conviction.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The root cause of suffering is identification with the impermanent. The reason why it's so difficult to disassociate is the innate nature and tendency of body-mind has to be overcome and put aside and association with something as seemingly insubstantial as awareness has to be embraced. That's no simple feat and mind will never get one there and with conviction.

How do people identify with the impermanent/duality/conditional love? Hint: I have been saying how people identify with duality/conditional love and identifying with duality/conditional love is a choice that we can make to overcome. Sure starting is not easy and is not a feel good emotional thing but if is was an easy feel good emotional thing, everyone would be doing it. We humans overcoming duality/conditional love is like if an animal-like a pet dog or cat where to overcome it's instincts/conditioning. The present moment- the right here and right now gives us problems/obstacle to help us overcome/to learn about non-duality/unconditional love and to see peace in other humans, even if they have a angry, sad etc etc look on their faces, in order to perceive this you need to be aware of your thoughts and beliefs that cause duality/conditional love. My point being: the present moment-the right here and right now (when you are not remembering the past, avoiding the present moment, dreaming/thinking about the future) is non-duality/unconditional love. Could there be something beyond the non-duality/unconditional love of the present moment, sure but, thinking about that which is you not being in the present moment takes your awareness away from the present moment. Nothing matters more than being in the present moment. Please read the article on duality and fear I linked to in my signature. Most teachers, gurus, sages etc that I and you know of had beliefs that prevented them from perceiving the present moment-the right here and right now non-duality physical reality. otherwise they would not have said that the ultimate reality is beyond our perception. Since the ultimate reality is so called beyond our perception, why call it a reality in the first place? why not call it something else like a plane, dimension? A reality is a physical world that you are able to perceive and to interact with. note: I did not learn this from anyone else except from myself. I learned this by learning about how my own mind works

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

you need to be aware of your thoughts and beliefs that cause duality/conditional love.

note: I did not learn this from anyone else except from myself. I learned this by learning about how my own mind works

Ultimately, "learning about how my own mind works" is indeed quite illuminating and enlightening.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

How do people identify with the impermanent/duality/conditional love? Hint: I have been saying how people identify with duality/conditional love and identifying with duality/conditional love is a choice that we can make to overcome. Sure starting is not easy and is not a feel good emotional thing but if is was an easy feel good emotional thing, everyone would be doing it. We humans overcoming duality/conditional love is like if an animal-like a pet dog or cat where to overcome it's instincts/conditioning. The present moment- the right here and right now gives us problems/obstacle to help us overcome/to learn about non-duality/unconditional love and to see peace in other humans, even if they have a angry, sad etc etc look on their faces, in order to perceive this you need to be aware of your thoughts and beliefs that cause duality/conditional love. My point being: the present moment-the right here and right now (when you are not remembering the past, avoiding the present moment, dreaming/thinking about the future) is non-duality/unconditional love. Could there be something beyond the non-duality/unconditional love of the present moment, sure but, thinking about that which is you not being in the present moment takes your awareness away from the present moment. Nothing matters more than being in the present moment. Please read the article on duality and fear I linked to in my signature. Most teachers, gurus, sages etc that I and you know of had beliefs that prevented them from perceiving the present moment-the right here and right now non-duality physical reality. otherwise they would not have said that the ultimate reality is beyond our perception. Since the ultimate reality is so called beyond our perception, why call it a reality in the first place? why not call it something else like a plane, dimension? A reality is a physical world that you are able to perceive and to interact with. note: I did not learn this from anyone else except from myself. I learned this by learning about how my own mind works

No disrespect intended but I'm going to ask this again. How does avoiding your civic responsibilities jibe with your purported philosophy, because to me it seems self-centered and that simply doesn't reflect non-duality in any way, shape or form. it's the diametric opposite.

[r6r6]

There is ole saying that two heads { minds } are better than one.

Are two eyes, arms, legs and two observers better than one?

SPACE:
1} occupied,
2} non-occupied.

CONCEPTS:
1} absolute truth,
2} relative truths ergo the inherent allowance for non-truth.

BIODIVERSITY:
1} sex A
2} sex B


....Concave >)< convex...............


Four primary kinds of twoness LINK and they do not include twoness aspects of a torus.


1} O = me


2} O = you


3} ----- = line-of-realtionship or as ()()()( geodesic lines-of-relationship


4} background against which the above exist.


Vertical + horizontal


And the beat goes on, and the beat goes, la-de-dade dee, la-dedade-dee, music pounding rhythm to the brain..sung to Sonny and cher song