Astral experiences related to the prophecy of shift 2012?

[JOHNTY]

Greetings to you All,

All over your world people are discussing 2012 and all that may happen: during it and the few years after. Something will happen. There is no doubt of this.

Why?

Quite simply, because thought creates.



Think about it.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I never said physical existance in a whole is doomed for destruction, I have had to repeat myself several times now. What I said is physical life on Earth is and will end eventually. There are some things that don't need to be mystified. You are taking something scientific and turning it religious and/or spiritual. When the weatherman predicts it is going to rain tomorrow do you start talking about God and enlightenment? Science has it's pros and cons and I have no doubt that science has a relatively decent grasp on the birth, life, and death of stars. I am not saying they have even nearly unlocked all of the mysteries of space, they haven't and they never will.

But there is no question what so ever that stars die, and our Sun is a star which is finite not infinite. You don't question what God is or isn't everytime your car runs out of gas do you? The Sun is a source of energy just as gas is and when that energy is used up it will convert into another form of energy. Because as I am sure you know energy is not created nor destroyed, only converted into another form. Either way the Sun will no longer provide Earth with the heat it needs to remain in the livable zone. Mars was most likely once Earth-like and look at it now. Perhaps there is some form of life on Mars still but I guarantee you it is not exactly the same forms of life that were once there before Mars turned into a big red desert. Some died off, and perhaps some survived and live in caves or underground. Either way things are constantly changing and that is just the reality of this physical dimension. This has nothing to do with rules, because rules were made to be broken but there are principles that govern this physical dimension. The body you are living in right now I guarantee you will expire and you will no longer live inside of it. I never said anything about physical life being bad, good, or anything. I simply said our Sun is going to die, and it is no matter what unless there is divine intervention, huge advancements in technology, or a huge distortion of time.

I am not going to get into what God is or is not to me it would be a pointless discussion. If you're interested in finding out I suggest you read Enoch 1 and read the chapters where Enoch visits his heavenly abode and enscribes messages from the Most High, the Lord of Spirits.

I saw a science program some months back, I don't remember it's title though. It spoke of entropy, how all systems have "leakage" and how things tend toward disorder. This is understood as a fundamental principle of thermo-dynamics. This is "the way of things" according to present scientific minded thought.
Present scientic minded thought is not the arbiter of truth -- they don't establish what is, they observe. You have no power in determining my lifespan...none...zero. Damn you irritate me.
Why do you resist 'enlightenment'?
You can go your own way, Peace2U

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

... divine intervention...

I favor this option.

In our argument, I have wanted you to win.
You appear to have split yourself into two "realities": the spirit realm, which is largely fantasy and inconsequential, and the bleak, pointless, scientific realm which is unloveable.
Why do you give your voice to these lifeless conceptions?

Scientists observe. When they observe the divine intervention that rescues the Earth from destruction, they'll have to rewrite the 'laws' that had told them such things were not possible.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

I saw a science program some months back, I don't remember it's title though. It spoke of entropy, how all systems have "leakage" and how things tend toward disorder. This is understood as a fundamental principle of thermo-dynamics. This is "the way of things" according to present scientific minded thought.
Present scientic minded thought is not the arbiter of truth -- they don't establish what is, they observe. You have no power in determining my lifespan...none...zero. Damn you irritate me.
Why do you resist 'enlightenment'?
You can go your own way, Peace2U

I am no where near a scientist and I can tell you that you will not live in your physical body to be any older than 130 years, I would be surprised if you made it to 100 but it is possible. There are some things in this physical world that can be predicted, of course predictions are nothing more than an educated guess. It doesn't take a prophecist to tell you that you're going to die, everything living in the physical dimension dies one way or another. This includes stars, our Sun is a star and so it is included.

Just because I agree with some scientific data which has proven to be correct does not mean I am opposed to spiritual/religious views or resist "enlightenment." The only thing I am resisting is your brute attempt of forcing your religious propaganda down my throat. You are irritated because you are clinging to religion being able to answer all the mysteries and solve every problem known to living beings. But God if that is who you worship does not even want us to hold knowledge on the stars and the nature of them. If you want to be honest God's angels explained stars to Enoch as being blown around by angelic winds. Perhaps it was to make things simple for Enoch or perhaps there are just things we weren't supposed to know because it makes life much more complicated. Probably the latter of the two because look how bad knowing that stars die is making you look and how disturbed you are because of that knowledge. Either way as I have stated and I am correct, science has a relative grasp on the nature of stars, their birth, their life, and their death. You cannot debate the Sun will die.

You said you lean towards "divine intervention." But for being so religious you obviously do not even know what the religious end-time scenario is. God will come and remove all of his righteous followers and there will be Hell on Earth. Then God will return with his armies and defeat evil and then Humans will return to live in Heaven on Earth for 100 years, and then we will return to the true Heaven. So even if that did or does happen life on Earth will come to an end, I rest my case.

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

I favor this option.

In our argument, I have wanted you to win.
You appear to have split yourself into two "realities": the spirit realm, which is largely fantasy and inconsequential, and the bleak, pointless, scientific realm which is unloveable.
Why do you give your voice to these lifeless conceptions?

Scientists observe. When they observe the divine intervention that rescues the Earth from destruction, they'll have to rewrite the 'laws' that had told them such things were not possible.

It's not just I who split the astral planes/dream planes/spiritual world into two dimensions. Seth did the same thing as well, I just read it last night. Basically he said we have two faces, one always looking at the physical dimension and one always looking at the planes. The two will never look at the opposite. If you have spent any time in the astral planes I am sure you would agree but I guess you spend all your time enforcing your religious beleifs upon people. Just to make it clear I am religious, but your God is the cure for cancer **** is ridiculous. God is not going to save the Sun, quite frankly you are wasting your intellect believing this and your physical life tromping around on other people's beliefs.

You are just as clueless talking about people observing divine intervention as a scientist is guessing on the life of a star. You have never witnessed divine intervention, but scientists have witnessed the death of stars. So actually you are far more clueless. You criticize what I speak of and you speak of something you do not know, only something you believe. I don't doubt divine intervention, but I doubt those who walk around with it as their pitch fork to poke and prod others who do not agree with them on everything. While your spirit is inside of this physical flesh shell you have to live with the principles of physical life. Even the four noble truths state that, which is why it talks about suffering. So accept it, you are here physically alive right now and all of your religious beliefs will not change that.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I am no where near a scientist and I can tell you that you will not live in your physical body to be any older than 130 years, I would be surprised if you made it to 100 but it is possible. There are some things in this physical world that can be predicted, of course predictions are nothing more than an educated guess. It doesn't take a prophecist to tell you that you're going to die, everything living in the physical dimension dies one way or another. This includes stars, our Sun is a star and so it is included.

Just because I agree with some scientific data which has proven to be correct does not mean I am opposed to spiritual/religious views or resist "enlightenment." The only thing I am resisting is your brute attempt of forcing your religious propaganda down my throat. You are irritated because you are clinging to religion being able to answer all the mysteries and solve every problem known to living beings. But God if that is who you worship does not even want us to hold knowledge on the stars and the nature of them. If you want to be honest God's angels explained stars to Enoch as being blown around by angelic winds. Perhaps it was to make things simple for Enoch or perhaps there are just things we weren't supposed to know because it makes life much more complicated. Probably the latter of the two because look how bad knowing that stars die is making you look and how disturbed you are because of that knowledge. Either way as I have stated and I am correct, science has a relative grasp on the nature of stars, their birth, their life, and their death. You cannot debate the Sun will die.

You said you lean towards "divine intervention." But for being so religious you obviously do not even know what the religious end-time scenario is. God will come and remove all of his righteous followers and there will be Hell on Earth. Then God will return with his armies and defeat evil and then Humans will return to live in Heaven on Earth for 100 years, and then we will return to the true Heaven. So even if that did or does happen life on Earth will come to an end, I rest my case.



It's not just I who split the astral planes/dream planes/spiritual world into two dimensions. Seth did the same thing as well, I just read it last night. Basically he said we have two faces, one always looking at the physical dimension and one always looking at the planes. The two will never look at the opposite. If you have spent any time in the astral planes I am sure you would agree but I guess you spend all your time enforcing your religious beleifs upon people. Just to make it clear I am religious, but your God is the cure for cancer **** is ridiculous. God is not going to save the Sun, quite frankly you are wasting your intellect believing this and your physical life tromping around on other people's beliefs.

You are just as clueless talking about people observing divine intervention as a scientist is guessing on the life of a star. You have never witnessed divine intervention, but scientists have witnessed the death of stars. So actually you are far more clueless. You criticize what I speak of and you speak of something you do not know, only something you believe. I don't doubt divine intervention, but I doubt those who walk around with it as their pitch fork to poke and prod others who do not agree with them on everything. While your spirit is inside of this physical flesh shell you have to live with the principles of physical life. Even the four noble truths state that, which is why it talks about suffering. So accept it, you are here physically alive right now and all of your religious beliefs will not change that.

It is not I who have been insistant that others believe as I. You have stated your opinion as "not debatable".
I can tell you this: I AM my body. I am not encased in flesh. I AM flesh. Further, I AM the Earth. I AM the Sun. You cannot remove me from the Truth of Me.
You do not have the power to separate truth from truth; no one does.
Love is eternal.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

It is not I who have been insistant that others believe as I. You have stated your opinion as "not debatable".
I can tell you this: I AM my body. I am not encased in flesh. I AM flesh. Further, I AM the Earth. I AM the Sun. You cannot remove me from the Truth of Me.
You do not have the power to separate truth from truth; no one does.
Love is eternal.

Unfortunately that is not the case. I never said anyone needed to believe as I do, everyone is more than entitled to their own beliefs. You started off the conversation between us by telling me I am wrong, and you are right. You seem quite confused, first you talk about the spirit and then you say "I AM my body." You are living inside of your body, and it's highly unlikely that is the only body you have lived in or will ever live in. You are your consciousness which is eternal, the flesh is mortal. So if you were your body that means you believe when your body dies, you die as well. Maybe that is what you believe in which case I am not going to infringe on your beliefs. You seem to be contradicting yourself now which is making your argument seem like you are more than over-extending yourself to prove your theories. It's not a mystery that all of us physically come from star dust, something I would like to add science discovered. So in a way we are related to the Sun, and surely we are connected to the Earth in the most basic of ways. As far as removing you from the truth everything you have stated you claim to be the truth is theoretical knowledge that cannot ever be proven. So by stating you are the truth is more than overcompensation. I am not saying I agree or disagree with you because quite frankly it doesn't matter whether I do or not. The way you state that "I am the truth" about subjects nobody has one shred of evidence to prove or disprove has made you now look like a fanatic. So this conversation is pointless because there is no point in arguing with a fanatic about their beliefs, just as their is no point in arguing with a skitsophrenic about their dellusions.

Originally Posted by peacegarden

I can see this very strongly myself. Everyone is at a different place in waking up, and the lessons they are being presented with in life is helping them to do so whether they know it or not. Also, we're in the age of information, anything we want to know is at the click of a button, and anyone can make documentaries on youtube these days, information is free, whereas before it was hidden behind the propaganda of tv and media.

It is a gradual web of awakening which I believe is speeding up, but I don't personally believe there will be anything different on the 21st dec 2012, just another day. But we don't have long to wait to find out

Mhmm, yep yep!

[Tobi]

This is an interesting argument. It's sparky, and I like it.
But H.O.R.A.C.E. I have got to say this....
The Spirit Realm is largely NOT fantasy and inconsequential. This a once-die-hard ex-skeptic talking.
Plus Science is neither bleak, pointless, nor unloveable. It just has a lot of things to find out yet.