Visions of hell?

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Baile

Religions and God-beliefs are like the many languages of the world. Various groups of karmic souls, each living their reality within the confines of their own chosen belief-paradigms. This lifetime they're Christian, next lifetime they're Muslim, and after that they come back as a Theosophist. This lifetime they believe in hell, next lifetime they roll their eyes at the silly notion. The trick is to see the eternal big picture and not get stuck in the illusion and belief-limitations of the current karmic lifetime.

All kinds of beliefs out there. Karma and reincarnation are beliefs. I think we're like ants trying to interpret a human with our tiny brains. Basically none of it probably even remotely close.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

If God created humans and is all-knowing, he knew exactly what they would do even before he made them. According to fundamentalist Christianity, God punishes the majority of those humans for their sins in eternal torment. He knowingly created humans that would sin, suffer on earth, then suffer eternally in hell. That's super-psycho stuff lol. You can make excuses for it and try to justify it if you want. I'd rather call a spade a spade.

No where in the bible does it teach that God is all knowing.
Symbolism is taught in the NT for the value of what each has lost that are not allowed to enter Gods kingdom. not a literal place of eternal punishment--all that know God and his son know its truth--God is love--not a sadist.
Your thinking is error because you listened to blind guides.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by kjw47

No where in the bible does it teach that God is all knowing.
Symbolism is taught in the NT for the value of what each has lost that are not allowed to enter Gods kingdom. not a literal place of eternal punishment--all that know God and his son know its truth--God is love--not a sadist.
Your thinking is error because you listened to blind guides.

That's a good out. If God can't see the future then he gets out of the responsibility for all the pain and suffering in his creation. Weird how peope can see the future but God somehow can't.

He doesn't undestand human biology very wel either. It seems if you create something, you should understand how it's going to act. You'd understand how it works. But God can't so, there you go.

Or maybe God is an optimistic. He pretty much knew there was going to be untold suffering and pain, but really hoped maybe things would work out different. Took a huge gamble lol.

These are all my ideas btw, not a blind guide's. It's ok to think about things, you don't have to be a preacher or a famous religious teacher to have your own thoughts. But I think I know what you mean, most people dont' think for themselves, they listen to others.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

That's a good out. If God can't see the future then he gets out of the responsibility for all the pain and suffering in his creation. Weird how peope can see the future but God somehow can't.

He doesn't undestand human biology very wel either. It seems if you create something, you should understand how it's going to act. You'd understand how it works. But God can't so, there you go.

Or maybe God is an optimistic. He pretty much knew there was going to be untold suffering and pain, but really hoped maybe things would work out different. Took a huge gamble lol.

These are all my ideas btw, not a blind guide's. It's ok to think about things, you don't have to be a preacher or a famous religious teacher to have your own thoughts. But I think I know what you mean, most people dont' think for themselves, they listen to others.

All think for themselves---the only mortals on earth who know Gods truth---had to be taught by the teachers who are lead by Jesus.
The 3 rebels in Eden caused this system. It was not Gods fault.
God knows 100% what his will for the future is, it cannot be stopped--very few mortals can see the future--because this( Rev 16) is coming very soon and 99% do not have a clue.

God understands everything, he created all of it. Issues were raised against him in Eden. He is allowing those issues to be resolved fully once and for all time.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by kjw47

All think for themselves

I'm glad to hear that you think for yourself.

[Fremen]

The place I went to when very ill with fever was impossible to escape. It was full of beings who believed themselves to be diseased and disgusting and they went out of their way to display how depraved and utterly repulsive they were.

The lesson was that they believed and so there was a place for them. They believed they were forsaken by God and so they were able to live out that lie for as long as they needed. What a loving thing...

I was shaken to my core, but the understanding I got from the experience is priceless.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I'm glad to hear that you think for yourself.

Only to a point--Gods view and will is all that matters. Each mortal possess a treacherous and desperate heart( Jer 17:9)--full of false reasonings from within. The heart must be lead by Gods will, trained in Gods truths.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

All kinds of beliefs out there. Karma and reincarnation are beliefs. I think we're like ants trying to interpret a human with our tiny brains. Basically none of it probably even remotely close.

pretty much. It crossed my mind that if you won't accept the PRESENCE of things you don't like, by definition you can't be objective because true objectivity accepts ALL THINGS as they are and goes from there.

And likewise if you won't accept the EXPERIENCE of things you don't like there is much you will never learn.

But people are all about getting what they want at the expense of what others want, and don't think there can possibly be a downside to that sort of behavior.

I thought it ironic that Jesus actually thanked God for making the people so blind they couldn't see where the truth really lies. Apparently, as bad as things are, if we knew the truth it would be much much worse.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

pretty much. It crossed my mind that if you won't accept the PRESENCE of things you don't like, by definition you can't be objective because true objectivity accepts ALL THINGS as they are and goes from there.

And likewise if you won't accept the EXPERIENCE of things you don't like there is much you will never learn.

But people are all about getting what they want at the expense of what others want, and don't think there can possibly be a downside to that sort of behavior.

I thought it ironic that Jesus actually thanked God for making the people so blind they couldn't see where the truth really lies. Apparently, as bad as things are, if we knew the truth it would be much much worse.

Yeah I agree truth is something we probably couldn't handle with our limited understanding. Another type of understanding is being in touch with our feelings. If we're in touch with the earth and our bodies we can live like we're made to.

I think the bible mentions something about a still small voice inside. If we're in a place that's unsafe but not aware of it, we'll have a subtle feeling about it, but we have to be aware of our bodies. The voice is hard to hear. It also urges us to care about suffering. That still small voice tells me that the eternal torment story is about control.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Yeah I agree truth is something we probably couldn't handle with our limited understanding. Another type of understanding is being in touch with our feelings. If we're in touch with the earth and our bodies we can live like we're made to.

I think the bible mentions something about a still small voice inside. If we're in a place that's unsafe but not aware of it, we'll have a subtle feeling about it, but we have to be aware of our bodies. The voice is hard to hear. It also urges us to care about suffering. That still small voice tells me that the eternal torment story is about control.

It seems to me like you are listening pretty well

FWIW to me the story of God seems to have something to do with God deliberately relinquishing control...