The meaning of the crucifixion

[Busby]

[quote=Clear Blue Sky]to simply forgive is to excuse the situation; Christ came to detoxify the situation. not to end death but to pull out its sting.

Why did Christ die, in concrete reality? Because religious professionals were jealous and suspicious and condemning of him. Because the praising crowd was fickle easily swayed like cattle with no integrity. because his disciple were life-fearing cowards who cut and ran. Because Judas. Because Pilate was a pass-the-buck wishy-wash politician. Because Herod was a lackadaisical shrug-it-offer. Because Roman guards were just obeying orders. All of these are the same sort of greed, cowardice, negligence etc we see plagueing our own human environment. They need to be dealt with.[/QUOTE]


Odd, One could easily think this crucificion 2000 years ago, was to at last wipe the slate clean...

Also, crying out 'My god, my God, why hast thou forsaken me' was a bit of a letdown for all those watchers.

[Kine Lea]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

"It is said that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Why should Jesus suffer when he, as an omnipotent God could have just forgiven our sins by will?"

Didn't Jesus say, do not follow me!. The Crucifixion is a testimony to the consequences of this.
The nut houses of today are filled with would-be omnipotent Gods.

Access to the kingdom of heaven is only for believers, disciples -
and the kingdom of heaven is the city of God,
that lives forever, in the heart of Christ.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Kine Lea

Didn't Jesus say, do not follow me!. The Crucifixion is a testimony to the consequences of this.
The nut houses of today are filled with would-be omnipotent Gods.

Access to the kingdom of heaven is only for believers, disciples -
and the kingdom of heaven is the city of God,
that lives forever, in the heart of Christ.

can you please provide the reference to where jesus said 'do not follow me?' I haven't heard that one before.

[Kine Lea]

Hi FallingLeaves,

Jesus' discussions with Peter, as I recall, on matters of following in the footsteps of the Christ.
Peter was advised and warned, of the road that leads to inevitable crucifixion.

[kisalipa]

When Jesus was carrying on the cross, devotees standing on both sides were weeping. Jesus stopped and told that they should not weep for Him and instead, they should weep for themselves and for their children! What is the meaning of this message? This means that Jesus is going to suffer the crucifixion for just few hours only and after death He is going to enjoy the eternal bliss sitting on the lap of His father in the heaven. If we analyze true fate of those devotees sympathizing Jesus, the actual sympathy is reverse! Those devotees may have happy death, which is for a very short span of time only. But, these devotees and their future generations are going to fall in the liquid fire of hell forever after their short happy deaths. Almost every human incarnation underwent lot of agony in the death time to preach the devotees not to worry about very short span of death but to worry about the long span of suffering in the hell! Shri Satya Sai Baba suffered a lot on death bed for one month. Shri Shirdi Sai Baba suffered a lot during death by transferring TB of His ardent devotee onto Him. Jesus suffered a lot on the cross. Lord Krishna suffered a lot since the hunter shot His foot with arrow and constant bleeding took place till death. Therefore, the matter is not about the short suffering or short happiness of the death, but it matters much about the long span of time in which the soul is going to hell or heaven.

[Kine Lea]

I totally agree, kisalipa. It matters.

The most important lesson, of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, is to know the connection between The Cross,
and the parable of the Patches and the Wineskin.
If a new patch tears the cloth, as does the new wine in the old wineskins ... then only this gives meaning to the crucifixion.

There is the old. There is the new.

Then ... there is no more to learn.

[Amilius777]

Jesus DID say "follow me" but he didn't advise everyone to die on crosses. In fact he said to "take up your crosses with the right attitudes". Jesus just had a literal cross in life given to him by the State and Religion to show the cure, the healing balm, the liberation from the Sin of the World which is redemptive violence, scapegoating, victimizing, transmitting pain, projecting.

Jesus took on all that negativity and held the pain and suffered but with love and forgiveness.

That is the Way out of our own dilemmias whether we have sinned or we ourselves were sinned against by others. You replace anger with kindness, eye for an eye with Forgiveness, ignorant with Understanding, hate with Love, etc.

That is what Jesus did on the cross. The thing is part of Jesus' message as a Spiritual Teacher is that he visually needed to demonstrate and show everyone his Message and new Consciousness in action against evil. That is why Jesus chose to become a martyr. But he wasn't a martyr. Martyrs die for causes, ideas, religious, philosophies. Jesus died giving humanity what it was missing. I think he coulda cared less if people believed he was "the Son of God" which was just a 1st Century title given to him to explain his personal relationship with the God of the Israelities.

But we all can be a Christ in our day to day lives if we just apply his example to our own lives.

We are not called to the lifestyle and mission Jesus possessed. We are all souls, spiritual divine beings have a human experience. We are primarily from a higher dimension, that is we are 5th dimensional energies. We come here into the Earth to experience, grow, evolve, and ascend; unless we choose otherwise. Jesus was an even much higher entity who came from dimensions or a frequency we'd call "The Divine, God, Spirit, the Sacred, Love", and lived an archeyptal human life. He had a divine mission given to him as a Way shower, Emblem, Exemplar.

But like I said we all have crosses in our lives we must bear with the right attitudes which can be a way for us not only to save ourselves but help the Christ Spirit continue to save others in the process.

[Kine Lea]

Fair point, Amilius777, although no actual connotations relating to the previously mentioned parable?

Again, what gives the crucifixion meaning when the parable is used to help express the human emotion involved
- (a constantly contradicting narrative cunningly woven throughout the gospels)?

Pain and suffering infused with new wine, torn like the new patch and the old skin.
Jesus on the cross pours out his agony, his life's blood, his love, for all mankind.

And yet, this sovereign act of high drama still lacks a certain vital touch ...

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Kine Lea

And yet, this sovereign act of high drama still lacks a certain vital touch ...

I wasn't sure what you were hinting at here and didn't want to just make up a random response to whatever it is I chose to think about it... but I am curious what you are saying?

[Kine Lea]

It's very difficult to talk about biblical stories in an earthy context. I'm sure Amilius777 means well, but I get the impression he was a little bit cross, to be sure. Taking the parable idea of the crucifixion and flying away off up into outer space with it, into dimensions far beyond this universe ... to I don't know where!

Anyway, as this isn't my thread I really should start one of my own,
if I wish to keep ideas grounded and within the context of the Jesus story