Rhinoceros Sutra.

[sky]

Khaggavisana Sutta, literally, "A Rhinoceros Horn," or the*Rhinoceros Sutra, is one of the earliest and more authentic expressions of original Buddhist thought. The*sutta*is from the Pali collection of short texts known as theKuddhhaka Nikava, the fifth division of the*Sutta Pitaka.

Because the Asian rhinoceros had one horn, and because lore attributed to it a life alone in the forest, this sutra is aptly titled to present what the translator calls an essay "on the value of living the solitary wandering life." Specifically, this would refer to the life of the forest monk of Southeast Asia.

Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, copyright 1997; free to distribute and reproduce. Slight amendments made to the text.

*Renouncing violence
for all living beings,
harming not even a one,
you would not wish for offspring,
so how a companion?
Wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

For a sociable person
there are allurements;
on the heels of allurement, this pain.
Seeing allurement's drawback,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

One whose mind
is enmeshed in sympathy
for friends and companions,
neglects the true goal.
Seeing this danger in intimacy,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Like spreading bamboo,
entwined,
is concern for offspring and spouses.
Like a bamboo sprout,
unentangling,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

It's quite a long Sutra so I have just copied the first few verses.

It seems to go against the idea of Sanghas.... or am I missing something. Or does it just apply to Wandering Monks ?

[jonesboy]

A lot of this seems to be about desires of the mind.

Originally Posted by sky123

Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, copyright 1997; free to distribute and reproduce. Slight amendments made to the text.

*Renouncing violence
for all living beings,
harming not even a one,
you would not wish for offspring,
so how a companion?
Wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

This is warning about anger.

For a sociable person
there are allurements;
on the heels of allurement, this pain.
Seeing allurement's drawback,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

Ego and pride.

One whose mind
is enmeshed in sympathy
for friends and companions,
neglects the true goal.
Seeing this danger in intimacy,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

A warning about getting caught in others issues and not the true goal, that which is within yourself.

Like spreading bamboo,
entwined,
is concern for offspring and spouses.
Like a bamboo sprout,
unentangling,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

A warning about being entangled in the lives of your children and spouse more than you look within yourself.

It seems to go against the idea of Sanghas.... or am I missing something. Or does it just apply to Wandering Monks ?

From the little that you have posted it isn't really about either.

Seems to me it is saying don't get so caught up in the cares and worries for others and neglect yourself. The true goal is within yourself... not outside..

Edit: Just found this commentary on it.

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia...gavisana_Sutta

Also,

•Khaggavisana Sutta (Sn I.3) -- A Rhinoceros Horn. On the value of living the solitary wandering life of a forest monk.
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english...a/suttanipata/

A wandering monk, seems to fit.
.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A lot of this seems to be about desires of the mind.



This is warning about anger.



Ego and pride.



A warning about getting caught in others issues and not the true goal, that which is within yourself.



A warning about being entangled in the lives of your children and spouse more than you look within yourself.




From the little that you have posted it isn't really about either.

Seems to me it is saying don't get so caught up in the cares and worries for others and neglect yourself. The true goal is within yourself... not outside..

Edit: Just found this commentary on it.

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia...gavisana_Sutta

Also,

•Khaggavisana Sutta (Sn I.3) -- A Rhinoceros Horn. On the value of living the solitary wandering life of a forest monk.
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english...a/suttanipata/

A wandering monk, seems to fit.
.

Please don't tell me it's not about either and then agree with me it's regarding ' Wandering Monks '

It's actually about attaining enlightenment alone, without Sangha/Teachers etc: I also think it might be about ' Pratyekabuddha's ' ( Silent Buddhas ) but I am not 100% certain, I need to ponder on this....

Any suggestions from others would be interesting.
GEM where are you, help please.......

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Please don't tell me it's not about either and then agree with me it's regarding ' Wandering Monks '

It's actually about attaining enlightenment alone, without Sangha/Teachers etc: I also think it might be about ' Pratyekabuddha's ' ( Silent Buddhas ) but I am not 100% certain, I need to ponder on this....

Any suggestions from others would be interesting.
GEM where are you, help please.......

A wondering monk and the life of a wandering monk is not against the sangha or teachers...He is a monk, therefore a member of the sangha...

But feel free to get other views

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A wondering monk and the life of a wandering monk is not against the sangha or teachers...He is a monk, therefore a member of the sangha...

But feel free to get other views

The Sutra is about reaching enlightenment alone and without teachers so they wouldn't be part of a sangha unless they just called in for a coffee and a chat now and again
I am studying another Suttra regarding Pacceka Buddha's and trying to work out if this Sutra is about them also.
Pacceka Buddha's attain enlightenment without any help from others, solitary Buddha's....
Still not sure but I am leaning towards this idea.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

The Sutra is about reaching enlightenment alone and without teachers so they wouldn't be part of a sangha unless they just called in for a coffee and a chat now and again
I am studying another Suttra regarding Pacceka Buddha's and trying to work out if this Sutra is about them also.
Pacceka Buddha's attain enlightenment without any help from others, solitary Buddha's....
Still not sure but I am leaning towards this idea.

I would disagree.

Going off to a cave has been part of various traditions for a long time.. even before Buddhism.

A monk is a person who follows a tradition, learns the practices and then to not deal with all of the issues/obstructions.. like family, fame, etc.. goes into solitary.. like a cave.

Many Tibetan monks do this to this day.. but each would still say they have a guru/teacher..

An Hindu example would be a Sadhu...

[django]

Originally Posted by sky123

The Sutra is about reaching enlightenment alone and without teachers so they wouldn't be part of a sangha unless they just called in for a coffee and a chat now and again
I am studying another Suttra regarding Pacceka Buddha's and trying to work out if this Sutra is about them also.
Pacceka Buddha's attain enlightenment without any help from others, solitary Buddha's....
Still not sure but I am leaning towards this idea.

I'd like to know which the other sutra is that you're studying regarding Pacceka Buddha's as well

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

A lot of this seems to be about desires of the mind.



This is warning about anger.



Ego and pride.



A warning about getting caught in others issues and not the true goal, that which is within yourself.



A warning about being entangled in the lives of your children and spouse more than you look within yourself.




From the little that you have posted it isn't really about either.

Seems to me it is saying don't get so caught up in the cares and worries for others and neglect yourself. The true goal is within yourself... not outside..

Edit: Just found this commentary on it.

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia...gavisana_Sutta

Also,

•Khaggavisana Sutta (Sn I.3) -- A Rhinoceros Horn. On the value of living the solitary wandering life of a forest monk.
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english...a/suttanipata/

A wandering monk, seems to fit.
.

I tend to agree with you, entanglements/ attachments with all beings, inclusive of your spouse and children. In some ways the text for me speaks of total renouncement of all those things you mention, to walk more clear as your true nature.

It is something I learned in my fear of death and the unknown of death, to let go of my partner and my son in that space, to surrender them to death at the core of myself, to end my "holding" onto them through my conditioned self that was attached. At that level I was moving closer to myself, they were both two key "closest" to me people, that came before I entered into this for myself.

As for the rest you have covered, it does reflect what your noticing imo.

[Ground]

The sutta is about who knows best and in this sense it is related to the Kalama Sutta.
And of course you may argue about who knows best what the sutta is about.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by sky123

The Sutra is about reaching enlightenment alone and without teachers so they wouldn't be part of a sangha unless they just called in for a coffee and a chat now and again
I am studying another Suttra regarding Pacceka Buddha's and trying to work out if this Sutra is about them also.
Pacceka Buddha's attain enlightenment without any help from others, solitary Buddha's....
Still not sure but I am leaning towards this idea.

Considering that actually there is no 'enlightenment' to attain because all and everything is already 'enlightened' from the outset one who metaphorically 'wanders alone' is certainly better aligned in actuality than one who seeks the company of believers ('sangha') or alleged 'teachers' to support his own belief in and feed his own hope for attainments.