Is Judaism a journey inward?

[Honza]

Through Judaism does one go inward towards the God within? How is God perceived? Is He considered to exist inside each and every one of us? How does the Judaic journey take you to Him?

Below is a consideration of the difference between Christian religion and Hindu/Buddhist religion.

This is the main difference between Christianity and Hinduism/Buddhism. Hindus and Buddhists do go inward, but do they go upward? Not a lot I should imagine.

To go upward as well you need a good relationship with The Father and with Your Neighbour (or others). Hindus and Buddhists neglect their relationship with the Father and with their Neighbour and concentrate on going inward alone.

Christians, through the love of Christ, establish a relationship with their own Inner God as well as with The Father and other people. That is the difference.

Hindus and Buddhists go inward alone. Christians go inward with The Father and other people. Hence their direction inward towards I AM goes upward as well.

A direction inward without the love of The Father and other people will eventually start going downwards.

How does Judaism relate to this?

Judaism is completely different. In Buddhism we start with 'I am the most real'. In Judaism we start with 'God is the most real'.

The basic, basic premise of Judaism is 'God saved us from Egypt'. This is taught as an evidence-based fact to every child and it is repeated at least once a year, in great detail, at the Passover service. Every child grows up knowing God. All of Jewish knowledge and practice begins with the fundamental premise of 'God exists and He is the real existence - all other existence is secondary'.

Thus you could say that Buddhism is a bottom-up approach while Judaism is a top-down approach - Buddhism starts with the 'I' and reaches inwards/upwards towards the spiritual realm, hopefully eventually reaching God who is infinitely far away. Judaism starts with God and infers downwards through the infinite chasm of spirituality, attempting to learn how God and this world connect to one another and interact.

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Through Judaism does one go inward towards the God within?
No, we remain as we are and acknowledge the God around us.

How is God perceived?
God is perceived as the Ultimate Existence.

Is He considered to exist inside each and every one of us?
He is considered to be inside and around all of existence. He is that which makes it possible to exist. He is considered to be with us and above us. Attempting to resolve these considerations is one of the first steps in attempting to understand God.

How does the Judaic journey take you to Him?
The Judaic journey begins with us being connected to Him as a basic premise. He pulled us out of Egypt, He gave us Torah, He set us apart from the other nations. As a Jew it is impossible to escape God. Our journey is not about finding Him, it is about working WITH Him to co-create the world and make it a better place.

[Honza]

Hi Yamah,

I Am The Most Real and God Is The Most Real are two premises which indicate the God/I nature of reality. God eventually leads to I and I eventually leads to God. The two are so intertwined that you cannot avoid either of them.

If you believe I AM GOD now you will eventually come to realise that GOD IS GOD too. If you believe GOD IS GOD now you will eventually come to realise that I AM GOD too.

That is my understanding.

What this leads to is a comprehension similar to what Jesus had - The Father and Son relationship of reality. When God is the Father then I am the Son. When I am the Father then God is the Son. And so on.

And that is exactly what Judaism doesn't say.

I am me.

God is God.

I am not God.

God is not me.

In Judaism we understand firstly that God is Above. He created us. We are lesser beings. We are mundane.

This premise must be internalized FIRST. Without understanding that we are creations and we are not God then people can get lost in I AM and not truly come to understand God.

Once the separation is understood one can explore how one is connected to God. God fills us and surrounds us, he creates us constantly, we are vessels for His will. We are intertwined with God, but not up to 100%.

Truly understanding what this means represents a lifetime of study. A person is supposed to be 40 years old, married with children and having competently learned the Torah and Gemara before beginning the study of Kabbalah - the study of the interconnectedness of Man and God. That's 40 years of understanding the we are Separate and learning how it is such before beginning with how we are connected.

[Honza]

In which case I think this is an unrealistic aspect of Judaism which will isolate it in the modern world. The world is waking up to I AM. People are accepting that they are equal co-creators with God everywhere. They are accepting that they are God as well. Judaism's stance on this means it will only get left out in the cold.

The official stance of Christianity is the same as Judaism, but many Christians are now reading the New Testament on their own terms and are interpreting Christs word differently. Many Christians are now accepting that they are God too. The New Age Christians in particular.

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by Honza

In which case I think this is an unrealistic aspect of Judaism which will isolate it in the modern world. The world is waking up to I AM. People are accepting that they are equal co-creators with God everywhere. They are accepting that they are God as well. Judaism's stance on this means it will only get left out in the cold.

The question can be fairly asked how much you actually know about Judaism in all of its myriad expressions. From from what you have written in the past, and I could be wrong, the answer is - not much. And if you think a brief reply from Yamah or me or any other Jew who might post on this forum is going to provide you with that kind of knowledge, you are sadly mistaken.

Judaism has always stood in isolation from the beliefs of the world around it. Judaism is not interested in a popularity contest. It is not a static tradition, but in its dynamism it has remained true to itself --- and that it is what matterss - not the uninformed opinions of non-Jews who want Judaism "to get with the program."

Wherever your heart takes you, go, be true to yourself and be at peace, but you will pardon us if we simply wish you bon voyage.

I am reminded of what Mark Twain wrote, If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvellous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains.

B'shalom,

Peter

[Honza]

Maybe that will be the conclusion to the great spiritual discussion of our times; that everybody go their own way and bid everyone else bon voyage.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by RabbiO

The question can be fairly asked how much you actually know about Judaism in all of its myriad expressions. From from what you have written in the past, and I could be wrong, the answer is - not much. And if you think a brief reply from Yamah or me or any other Jew who might post on this forum is going to provide you with that kind of knowledge, you are sadly mistaken.

That is almost to be taken for granted in a general spiritual forum like this. I am not Jewish. Judaism interests me only as much as all the other religions of the world do. I do not do extensive reading on any of the worlds religions. This forum is a semi *New Age* forum for discussing spiritual thoughts and experiences and not a scholarly Jewish forum. Peter, you and Yamah are probably the only two people here who know much about Judaism.

To be honest I wonder why you spend your time here - of course you are very welcome - but you would probably have better discussions about Judaism at a Jewish Forum. This forum is GENERAL SPIRITUAL (NEW AGE) discussion. Things like 'twin flames' 'near death experiences' and so on.

Scholarly discussion about the worlds religions is the place for forums devoted to those religions.

Honza: You're back to I AM now? Interesting.

RabbiO said exactly what I would have said, but much clearer than I could. Philosophies come and go around Judaism; our philosophy has been attacked from EVERY side. And yet our philosophy remains to continue to be attacked from more sides.

In my opinion Hinduism, Buddhism etc. take things too far because they don't have the full picture - they don't see the other side of the ultimate paradox that is existence.

Here's how I understand the Buddhist's logic structure:
I experience that I am me.
I experience that I am bigger than me.
I experience that I am bigger than bigger than me.
Thus I am the biggest.

Here's how I understand the Jewish parallel:
I experience that I am me.
I experience that I am bigger than me.
I experience that I am bigger than bigger than me.
I have been taught and understand that God is the biggest.
Thus I am big but not the biggest.

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Before I was a religious Jew I was deeply immersed in the New Age. I was a practicing Wiccan for 3 years, read Tarot cards, hung out with the Hare Krsna... today I work as a Massage Therapist and Energy Healer and I still consider myself new age.

The reason why I began my journey back towards Judaism is precisely because I found SOMETHING lacking in New Age philosophy... through all the reading, meditating, conversing, divining etc. there were always holes in what I read and nothing I found spoke to me fully... I felt like I was pulling a bit from here and there and I was building my own worldview slowly but surely, with struggles and troubles. Then I looked into Kabbalah... and found that what I was so carefully and delicately putting together already existed - but worded so much more clearly. As I learned more and more I found that my 'aha' moments increased rapidly and everything I learned fit perfectly into place. When I found things I disagreed with I still argued against it and tried to go my own way, but then after learning more I went back and said 'oh, I see how that works now'.

But still within pure Judaism I find something lacking. It is all theory and builds a beautiful logical structure that everything fits into wonderfully but I'm not the kind of person that can just learn - I have to do and practice and test and argue. By learning from non-Jews I can better understand what Judaism says, sometimes by seeing things from a different perspective and sometimes by being forced to clarify certain ideas in my own mind. Also Judaism tends to be a bit of a closed structure and I have a drive for outside input, to stay connected to the 'outside world'. I totally disagree with the I AM philosophy but I find it fascinating.

Anyways, that's why I'm here.

[Honza]

Great answer Yamah,

My position at the moment is that I am halfway between I AM and God. I now understand both of these principles. It took me my whole life to get here.

I see them as both being part of the same reality. Two different aspects. The paradox.

The only being who has ever combined both I AM and God is Jesus. He was I AM but He was in surrender to God. That is what I want to be. Jesus said it right.

I now have the choice of becoming a Christian and following Him. Or doing it myself! I would rather do it myself, but if I falter then I will lean on Jesus.

God is the biggest. I agree. Yet I cannot deny that I AM. So in turn I submit to God and say I AM something like The Son. It makes sense to me.