Questions for Shamanic Journeyers

I have been reading about Shamanic Journeying and got some drumming cd's. I have had a few very vivid and powerful journeys, and some have been kind of muddy and vague.

Before I started doing these journeys 2 weeks ago, I have been working with Angels, Spirit Guides, and other "high level" entities for almost 30 years, and the information is very strong and positive. Since I have been doing the Shamanic stuff, I have encountered nothing "negative" but the "earthiness" of it gives off a clearly "lower" vibration. I don't think there would be anything intrinsically "negative" about animal or plant spirits, and I know my gatekeeper guide is what one would term "neutral" (I have actually worked with this specific Spirit before I started doing Shamanic journeying, so I actually know this person and know I can trust him), but I am worried I might attract something negative, or possibly have attracted something negative by working with "lower" vibrations, even though they are natural energies with no negative intent. Is there anything I should worry about, or are these journeys "safe"? The first journey I had was great EXCEPT there was one part when all these SPIDERS came swarming everywhere and I DISLIKED IT SO MUCH I almost stopped the journey. I was kind of scared but mainly I just felt repulsed by them for some reason. The rest of the journey was great but I kept thinking I had got close to something nasty. I asked my guides to get these spiders the heck away from me, and finally they disappeared, and I went on to have the rest of my journey which was lovely. THEN later I was reading about "negative entities to steer clear of" in one of Michael Harner's books, and SPIDERS was right up there with stinging insects and fanged reptiles.

I am still able to contact my "higher energy" Angels and guides and they say that there is no danger in these shamanic journeys for me, however that these shamanic journeys are also something that will not further my spiritual development. They said enjoy them if I want but that as far as raising my consciousness, and things like awakening and enlightenment, these shamanic journeys are diversions or distractions. i.e. that they won't harm me but that they also won't get me where I want to go.

I would love to hear any thoughts on this from people who are also shamanic journeyers.

Thanks in advance,
Voodoo Lady

[Little Peanut]

I am no shamanic expert myself, but I have been on some shamanic journeys as well. What you describe makes me believe you went to the lower world. Among other reasons, this world is where you would typically go to find your power animal.

I wonder if perhaps spider is your power animal--or one of them, for I do believe we have many. Spider is not necessarily a bad animal. Like all animals, it has both negative and positive qualities to it. But, I, myself do not like the spider either and am terrified of them.

As for calling on your guide to help you get rid of the spiders--that was very good thinking on your part. That is what your guides are there for. However, perhaps you need to find out if the spider was a guide for you-or a negative thing that is occurring in your life. Either way, it is good to find out so you can move forward from there.

As a power animal, the spider generally indicates that something new is about to begin for you. The spider energy is feminine energy shows you have creative qualities. The spider as a power animal helps you to learn patience and also create the life you are wanting to have. So, it can indicate a time where you have the ability to create something for yourself that will be bring about success in your life. Perhaps a job promotion? Or a new job? or what have you.

However, because you felt such fear when seeing the spider, it could be indicating something in your shadow self that you need to deal with. Such as something that is going on in your life that is not a happy thing. Something that is not right. Are you having heavy issues/burdens to deal with right now? The spider could've showed up on your journey to just bring this to your attention. Something perhaps that requires some action on your part and you've been holding back on doing so? Or it can also be that the spider is representing a woman or a person in your life who is creating havoc in your life right now. It most often represents a woman, though it can actually be anyone who has a creative and nurturing or in this case, threatening persona.

I hope this helps you in some way, and as I mentioned at the start of my post, I am not an expert, but I have worked with shamans in the past few years and have been helped by them with similar issues. In fact, I did once have the spider show up for me as a power animal too, but it was so frightening for me, that I begged its forgiveness and asked for it to go away and have another power animal come in its place to help me. It finally did leave, and other power animals have since come in to help me.

There's always the possibility of something "negative" manifesting in any form of journeying. (The journeying you do parallels my own pathworking and difficulties ocaasionally crop up).

I still don't understand what these "vibrations" are - people talk about them here and I assume the word is used metaphorically to mean what is good or bad for a traveller. Sort of "new=ageist" role-distancing speak!!

We all have a dark side (to some degree) and it will manifest sooner or later. Repressing or denying it effectively hands it control to seethe away, ready to spring surprises on you, be they minor irritations, fears etc. Doesn't mean they'll be overwhelming though the spider event sounds alarming! (I'm not afraid of spiders but I can appreciate this for someone who is.)

As you discovered you can snap out of it when things get too bad. But it's best to deal with discomforting visions/visitations if you can by one of several means. If you do snap out or try to banish something, think about it afterwards - not necessarily trying to rationalise - just reflecting, perhaps reliving if you can in full wakeful conscience. In this way you can externalise it; look at it, ritually dissipate it if that seems necessary, perhaps even thanking your guides for allowing it to be brought into the light.

The root causes can be many - ancient trauma, suppression of things seemingly unrelated; the inevitable friction between parents and a developing person/ personality; astral manifestations that have discovered something kindred in you or you have something they need. Who even knows, since we arrive her with a good deal of wiring already in place, that they haven't leaked through in something genetic from ancestors?

As to whether these journeys will further your spiritual development that depends on why you make them. What are you looking for? For some it's about discovering your "real" selfhood - the "you" that you're supposed to be, uncluttered by material trappings and illusion, comprehending your emotions etc etc. Your higher spiritual self. Can I ask - do you keep a diary of whatever you discover?

I obviously can't comment on the efficacy of your spirit guides but your report suggests that there's more to you than they want to tell you or let you see. Yes, they're perhaps trying to protect you from the shadows but that doesn't allow you to arrive at a balanced "self".

I personally look back on a few years of similar journeying but pathworking on the Tree of Life and, given a non-too-pleasant start in life, have to say that has been much of my spiritual development. I still have to interface with "the system" (which I often watch with amusement - consumerism, materialism, lives frittered on illusion and crass emotions) and have a fair way to go - but I'm getting there. The Great Work.

My views anyway!

Thank you both for your replies. I totally like the interpretation of instead of being scared of them, I should see what they are trying to tell me - an indication of something I need to address, or possibly them offering their wisdom to me as a power animal.

The reality is, I saw the spiders on a journey to meet my power animal. I saw loads of animals, crazy animals, like a "herd" of flamingos even! And the spiders were beautiful and they were not attacking me. I wondered at the time if perhaps the spider might be a power animal, because the rest of the journey was so very rich and lovely. The reason I did not end the journey was because I felt I needed to be "open" to whatever information my spirit helpers might want me to see, even if it included spiders which I normally don't like. One interesting thing I could not ignore - we just moved into this old house and there have been DOZENS of big, I mean BIG spiders. At first I was freaked out, but the more I kept catching them and putting them outside, I got less and less scared of them. In fact, one of them I kind of inspected and looked up on the internet because it was kind of "pretty." After my journey, when I saw spiders in the house again, I had a very positive feeling from them, like it may have been some sort of confirmation that they were friendly. But I wasn't sure if it was making up my impression of them as I saw them in my house, as that was "ordinary reality," so could have been my imagination, rather than some kernel of truth from a journey.

I read in one of Sandra Ingerman's books that if you go on a journey to see animal helpers, that is what you will see (and that was what I was doing on that journey). She said the time to worry about seeing spiders, stinging insects, or fanged serpents would be if you were doing a journey to look for negative energy intruders in someone, and on that journey you saw a swarm of spiders etc.

Lorelyen, the "lower" and "higher" vibrations I also call "negative" and "positive" but essentially for me these represent an entity's level of consciousness. I don't mean that someone of a "lower" or "negative" energy is necessarily "evil" but is at the bottom of the scale of consciousness, and is more likely to intentionally harm others, and someone higher up the scale of consciousness having "higher" or "positive" energy would be less likely to intentionally to do harm. I always have felt and understood these differences, and you can even see them in action, and they help you forgive people lower down on the scale of consciousness for the stupid and sometimes mean they do, because a person can only act from their current level of consciousness. A lot of people lower down the scale of consciousness fight and hurt others because they really think their ego-based dramas mean something, whereas people higher up the scale of consciousness tend to not need to defend any ego-imagined positionality. This doesn't make the person lower down the scale "evil" or the person high on the scale "good" any more than a college graduate would be "better" than a kid in nursery school - rather they are two people on the same journey but at different points in the journey. About a year ago I found the writings of an enlightened man who had actually been mapping out the different levels of consciousness among his patients as a doctor of psychiatry for 50 years, and his findings coincided exactly with my own experience of energy over the past 30 or so years of my studies. If you are interested, you can Google "map of consciousness" and "Dr. David R Hawkins."

[Thunder Bow]

I only do journeys up at Spirit Mountain, in my tent or car at night. Most are relaxing with out spiders and things like that. Try journeying outside of that spider ridden house. Or your imagination will bring them back again! There are no such thing as good or bad in a journey. The location where you journey, does influence what you see in a journey.

[Little Peanut]

Originally Posted by Voodoo Lady

The reality is, I saw the spiders on a journey to meet my power animal. I saw loads of animals, crazy animals, like a "herd" of flamingos even! And the spiders were beautiful and they were not attacking me. I wondered at the time if perhaps the spider might be a power animal, because the rest of the journey was so very rich and lovely.

ah! well then yes, it could be they are your power animal. I was told by a shaman, who helped me to contact my power animal, that if you see an animal/insect 3x - then that is the sign that they are your power animal. The others are just animals who happen to be in the lower world as well. I've met many of my power animals this way.

The reason I did not end the journey was because I felt I needed to be "open" to whatever information my spirit helpers might want me to see, even if it included spiders which I normally don't like. One interesting thing I could not ignore - we just moved into this old house and there have been DOZENS of big, I mean BIG spiders.

lol! I can understand that. We also live in a very old house (by U.S. standards, anyway--built 1790) and it is also LOADED with very large spiders. Nasty little things--and they are quite big--about the size of the palm of my hand. They are "wolf spiders". I've lived in this home for 8yrs and never could get use to them. They come and go now--this year are pretty bad again, like the first 2 years we lived here, but I think it is because our next door neighbors never mow their grass and throw garbage out in their yard. It is attracting A LOT of things. That, and we do live in the country/wooded area.

At first I was freaked out, but the more I kept catching them and putting them outside, I got less and less scared of them. In fact, one of them I kind of inspected and looked up on the internet because it was kind of "pretty." After my journey, when I saw spiders in the house again, I had a very positive feeling from them, like it may have been some sort of confirmation that they were friendly. But I wasn't sure if it was making up my impression of them as I saw them in my house, as that was "ordinary reality," so could have been my imagination, rather than some kernel of truth from a journey.

lol! I am not sure I can ever find the wolf spiders as pretty! What type of spider do you get, if you know the name?

I read in one of Sandra Ingerman's books that if you go on a journey to see animal helpers, that is what you will see (and that was what I was doing on that journey). She said the time to worry about seeing spiders, stinging insects, or fanged serpents would be if you were doing a journey to look for negative energy intruders in someone, and on that journey you saw a swarm of spiders etc.

Oh? I have some of her books and don't recall reading that--but I'm not saying she doesn't believe this. I don't believe that every animal or insect are either good or bad only. Like anything/anyone else, they carry a bit of both--good and bad in them. I also feel that mostly, like attracts like. So, if you are out to be mean and dirty--you'll probably encounter a power animal who may guide you in that direction. I'm not sure on this really--but it makes sense to me.

[wanchain]

Two words sounded familiar to me: spider and fear.

I had the same experience. Each spider represented one type of fear. Some were larger, some were smaller. One did not have a head. I was so scared!

I worked through each fear very quickly, perhaps one minute per fear. The largest spider was the size of a supermarket: my sense of shame. A fairly small one, about the size of a loonie, was my fear of drinking water.

Whomever brought me on to those journeys had asked me, on some occasions, "what would you like to see?" or "what do you want to tackle on?" I said, "Tell me what my fears are. I want to remove them all."

So what was your intention before journeying? That would determine what the journey means.

Alternatively, just ask while you are in the journey, "what does this mean?"