What happens when we die

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by Claude

Fair enough, but I can't...

Maybe the best thing here, for me at least, is to agree to disagree. Just a few points though.

I've never been so open minded, as I will always listen to others and see how their views resonate with me. A courtesy I offered you but didn't get in return. If anything, your comments were very personal, insulting, and borderline offensive. Not something that is really acceptable or tolerated on this forum. All just because my views don't align with yours. You know, that's not at all spiritual. Anyway, it's not in my nature to rise to such things so I'll just cover a few basic points.

Yes, I know my views may not necessarily accord with others, although it doesn't make them any less valid or spiritual either. As if we all agreed then we wouldn't have a forum to discuss such matters. Where just to be clear my views are as important as yours, or anyone else's. So much so, I have no problem with others disagreeing with me - and ask if you can do the same with critical challenge?

As said previously, I am not an atheist or a theist. I just 'am' and have complete appreciation of this.

By 'perfect' I'm talking about the heart of who we are, whether we see it in ourselves or not. So is not about ourselves or our actions, which can be imperfect so we can learn and appreciate differences

In my view we are all the universe, as we all originated from the Big Bang. A view that I am entitled to hold. As you are entitled to hold yours.

The term 'dissolve' has other meanings than 'to dilute'. I use the term 'dissolve' in the defined context of 'to disappear'. For completeness, to dissolve can also relate to a business, marriage or partnership.

The key point being this. Would you prefer that I conform to a 'truth' that I don't believe in, just to appease someone like yourself who sees things differently? Or do I hold true to my understanding and offer my opinion in complete honesty based on that understanding - even if it may not be something someone may want to hear? In my view it is the former that is the selfish view.

Also, what about objectivity and to consider what I say and think? Where it is then your complete freedom of choice to accept or deny it. I welcome challenge, so if I was to reject a view then I do so after much internal and external consideration. I will also re-evaluate, just to confirm that my understanding holds. Indeed, after reading and considering all you have said, I'm truly sorry but you've not offered me anything to change the way I think or feel.

What I do value though is your time, and that you have helped me validate what I believe to be the truth. At least for me.

I therefore would like to thank you, and wish you a good day also.

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by soulforce

Well memories are different than events. An event can be recorded accurately and kept, memories are subjective interpretations of an event. I speak of something transcending personal experiences; something more universal -that doesn't fade through the passage of time.

I can appreciate what you're saying. For the longest time I considered myself an Atheist. I didn't believe in life after death, God or anything of that sort. I didn't have any reason to. It was out-of-the-blue the "game", as you put it, was revealed to me. Now I know what the "game" means. What you said made me smile because you sound a lot like me approximately two years ago.

I can't speak for you, but I don't.

I understand that humans are beautiful creatures. You and I came to have a human experience; it's a little more important to us than just "a soul in a bag of skin running around like headless chickens". A very funny analogy though.

I kind of feel you choose to see the universe as a binary system. Either it's black or it's white. What if it's both at the same time?

Our true internal desire is to have a human experience and transcend into a universal one. There is also all the different states of consciousness in between. The other fact is we are there as we are here. We are in different places at once, and in different beings at once. The physicist call it superposition. It's simply the way it's always been.

I experience it quit differently. The universe doesn't disregard us that way. We will always exist even if it's via different ego's. You don't need to remember the ego that came before, because we're all one. You are me and I am you. We are living as independent ego's but spiritually we are the same.

I beg your pardon, but you misquoted me. Let me reiterate that I said information not energy. Information is not lost not even in a black hole.

And I would argue that memories survive bodily death as well. You will see when your time comes.

I'm a scientist and the universe is not in equilibrium. Not really at least. It only appears that way to us because we are transient. Unfortunately our universe does have an expiry date, because it is slowly tearing itself apart. Your notion that all this adds up to nothing is also incorrect.

Like I said before, we dream when we sleep so your "eternal sleep" will be filled with many a things.

Oh you're very welcome. It's interesting how we can look at the same event and see two very different realities. lol

You see sleep as the absence of consciousness and I see it as it is, we dream. Which everyone here knows suggest consciousness.

If you are insinuating "just like we never existed", then your own life is proof that oblivion is an illusion.

Hi soulforce,

Thank you for such a kind and considered reply.

I completely agree that a memory and an event are two different things. Although the same event can look entirely different depending on the perspective from when it is being recorded. A very simply example if I may...

...say I walk at 5mph, I then write an account that says I am walking at 5mph. However, I am also walking forward down a train carriage that is travelling at 45mph and someone from a train platform documents my walking. So they effectively record my speed as a combined total of 50mph. Both accounts are accurate, but both accounts are different. Please forgive me if it's not entirely without subjectivity - although I hope you see my point

I am so very grateful you see what I am looking to say, even if it isn't quite in sync with your own views. Where in all honesty I don't see the universe as an atheist or binary system - or made by a Creator. The black and white if you will. But as a wholly organic universe of which everyone and everything is intrinsically linked.

By way of a little background I grew up a non-practicing Christian, although a separate God never sat well with me. I then began my 'awakening' to who I am in 2013. Initially, I found God through a New Age belief system, where this forum and those here has been invaluable on my spiritual journey of self discovery. So much so this resonated much more with me, as it wasn't governed by rules and restrictions associated with religion. However, the idea of a separate God still didn't sit well with me. I went on to study Spirituality, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism along with other eastern and western philosophies. It is when I was looking beyond ego - the lower self - I came to realise that we are all already the higher self. It is just that often we don't see this. As truly there is no higher or lower self, as it is ego that gives rise to them both. Once we see beyond this illusion (the game) of ego, then we 'awaken' or 'ascend' to who we are. This is the point that I've reached.

Even so, I still remain open to spiritual understandings, science, the view of others, and my innermost instincts. Where quite simply the logic for me outweighs the want or need for an afterlife or reincarnation. As I'm just happy being 'me'. Where it's so beautiful by its simplicity.

Admittedly, I still see the balance of positive and negative energy balancing out to nothing. Although I am always open to the views of your good self and others that may result in me seeing things differently. It is just over the last few years I haven't seen or experienced anything to the contrary.

I too agree that the Universe one day will return to entropy. Even so, the positive and negative energy will always revert to zero - nothing. If anything, this most likely gives more credence to my understanding - as if we are this universe, and this universe disappears, so does the opportunity to incarnate anywhere. So what then? another universe? possibly... but that is the far distant future and is a concept. As with time being created at the very moment of the Big Bang, and from our reality, all we ever have is the ever present moment. No past, no future.

It's even the same with dreams. As, please correct me if I'm wrong, we only dream in REM sleep. Other than this, during sleep, we have no conscious awareness be it in the dream state; in the waking state - or any other state. Where we also have no concept of time - so in essence is the closest we come to death.

So when it comes to life: Beforehand we were nothing (death), we live (life), and we return to the very same state (death).

This I see as beautiful nature in perfect harmony. As even if we accept we come back as a different 'ego', without any previous conscious awareness, this truly is no different than my view of when we die we as the universe incarnate as someone else. The net effect from our human presence therefore being the very same.

Of course I'll always value and respect your opinions and the time you take to write your messages on the forum. Where you really do come across so articulately with kind courtesy for which I am extremely grateful.

So much so I loved how you said:

Originally Posted by soulforce

You are me and I am you. We are living as independent ego's but spiritually we are the same

I found that so very beautiful, and thank you so much for saying as I completely agree (maybe without the ego though, haha!).

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Khalli

All these posts and not one mention about the possiblity of ascension.

That would be expecting to much. As long individuals contemplate whether they exists at all and in what form, it would be to much to expect from them to contemplate existence on different levels and perhaps existing on different levels at the same time.
One step at a time.

[Khalli]

One can only hope by mentioning the possibility, it will plant a seed.

[Claude]

To Ghost_Rider_1970:

I think I forgot adding or the maximum characters limit didn't allow me to add this extra piece of information.

I'll add it here for your consideration.

You seem to imply that the Universal Source is not infinite, but finite (needs to recycle itself, and also you didn't post anywhere to be infinite). I regard the Universe as infinite (there is no need to recycle) so I assume steady state condition (the process does not depend on time): an unvarying condition in a physical process, especially as in the theory that the universe is eternal and maintained by constant creation of matter.

You do realize that what you wrote about your flawed theory implies no accumulation (in order to recycle and maintain that "equilibrium" state), correct? That would be valid only if the Universe would abide steady state condition for a finite amount of source. So this flaw in your theory contradicts my statements and simply proves that the Universal source is infinite, not finite and doesen't need to be recycled, despite being steady state it allows accumulation (because it is an infinite source).

Back to your theory:
Mathematically, performing a basic material balance (for the living): what goes in - what goes out = 0 . Hence what goes in = what goes out

As far as I know for humans, the natality (birth rate) > mortality (death rate) otherwise the population number won't increase. So, by your theory if someone decides to have 10 children at the same time (with different people) , 10 other people have to die in the exactly same time (to maintain equilibrium). But as natality>mortality it doesen't seem it abides to your theory since there is accumulation.

As for any other living beings aside from humans, I also believe it's true, since natality>mortality for them as well, otherwise they wouldn't have been here to exist in the present in the first place, and would have been extinct.

While being logged out (mistake from me, will not happen again) and scrolling down this thread I noted something about "to dilute", so I just closed my eyes (couldn't help but cringe at the non-sense, so my apologies to the other members if I might have omitted some flaws) and continued scrolling down. For definitions like for "perfect" I use the worldwide accepted ones, not mine, nor yours. You wrote that you are not selfish (since you like to express your opinion with others without being asked to do so and without thinking that might impact others in a negative way), don't care about other's feelings and that you like to express your opinion no matter what. Then, I dare you to go and say your opinion on how "they will simply cease to exist after death" to people from ISIS. I dare you to go in Afghanistan or Iraq and try sharing your opinion about "simply ceasing to exist after death" with them too, since you are not selfish and don't care about what others feel. They will make you famous and awakened in no time. I don't think others will care as you didn't care about them either, they won't be selfish either, since they would be interacting with you and do whatever they wish (like you). That's good for you from your cringey perspective. I guess, according to your perception that after you would die you won't be ungrateful, because you will "simply cease to exist" and won't be capable anymore to be ungrateful, but what about before that ? The suffering that you provoked towards other people, would you be grateful for that? (If yes, from my perspective then you're just another lost cause unfortunately). All this because you're not "selfish" (according to your perception) and don't care about other's, so why would they care about you? (Newton's 3rd law states: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction). So next time be careful what you wish for and how you harm other people feelings (even by words (opinion) ), even your neighbor, or on the street, because they might start a retaliation against you and you might end up getting hurt, even if you don't care about anyone.

Maybe some other Forum members saw your posted affirmations (you doing this without being directly asked to do so), were deterred (offended by you) and stepped back from the Thread and even Forum just because of you, as they came here for hope and faith and stumbled upon obnoxious, negative and cringey people like you, I guess you don't care, you're not selfish. Due to stubborn people like you, conflicts arise. That's why I wrote that "If I were you I would be sorry, miserable for affecting other's lives negatively and would apologize". I already feel sorry for people like you messing up the Forum and other people's lives in a bad way. "I would think twice, abstain, keep for myself unless directly asked for an opinion". I hate to repeat myself (unlike you), but I told you: a single word from you, a single action from you can turn someone's life 180 degrees and also impact their lives in a negative way. But I guess you are not selfish and don't care about their feelings. Also, "open minded" can't be quantified I guess you didn't knew that, it's another mistake like saying "very happy", you're either open minded or happy, there's no need for "very". Instead of accepting your mistakes, and learning from them, you keep humiliating yourself by finding excuses (which is just childish). With respect, but your understanding of basic concepts is way below, even compared to GCSE , and I don't intend lowering myself intellectually down to kindergarten level.

Please note that I never used this word (dilute) in this thread. For your information, "to dissolve" is different from "to dilute". The former implies :(with reference to a solid) become or cause to become incorporated into a liquid so as to form a solution. Whereas the latter implies:make (a liquid) thinner or weaker by adding water or another solvent to it (basically reducing the viscosity of a liquid). And that's how you transmit misleading flawed information to the members of the Forum. On the tombstone: "Here lies (choose the definition that you want, although the one that implies communication is a non-sense (according to your perception) and a pun intended anyway) the Almighty, All-knowing Universe" , a bunch of ashes (if cremated), bones (in the future after being dead for a while), or a rotten corpse (soon after death and just "bacteria food", and possibly "fertilizer for the soil", nothing more) be mourned (hypothetically) without sense since non-existent (in the way that the non-existent can't perceive the mourning) and probably no legacy left behind.

Thanks for reading. Oh, and I think nobody asked directly for your opinion (publicly) on this thread, or any other, but it was you that engaged in this conversation (and many others), nobody forced or invited you (publicly requested) to do so. I was here just to prevent your misleading and flawed information to be passed down to other Forum members, Universe .

PS: Don't even bother replying (unless you want to monologue), consider this my last message to you (I hope you understood it). If you want to seem "wise" as before, you better stop and back off, if you want to complain and find excuses (like a child) then go on, it's your choice. It's not like I welcome on this forum extremist, dull (repeating the same idea) and narrow-minded people like you anyway. I don't get what you're purpose is and what you're doing on this Forum, since you're so obnoxious, and have nothing to do with spirituality(my opinion) but I guess that's none of my business. I won't even be considering looking at (wasting my time and attention with you, and you don't even deserve them in the first place anyway), as it will appear as 1 row anyway (due to ignore list), we are incompatible, you don't deserve my attention, so I end the conversation here.

[soulforce]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Hi soulforce,

Thank you for such a kind and considered reply.

I completely agree that a memory and an event are two different things. Although the same event can look entirely different depending on the perspective from when it is being recorded. A very simply example if I may...

...say I walk at 5mph, I then write an account that says I am walking at 5mph. However, I am also walking forward down a train carriage that is travelling at 45mph and someone from a train platform documents my walking. So they effectively record my speed as a combined total of 50mph. Both accounts are accurate, but both accounts are different. Please forgive me if it's not entirely without subjectivity - although I hope you see my point

I am so very grateful you see what I am looking to say, even if it isn't quite in sync with your own views. Where in all honesty I don't see the universe as an atheist or binary system - or made by a Creator. The black and white if you will. But as a wholly organic universe of which everyone and everything is intrinsically linked.

By way of a little background I grew up a non-practicing Christian, although a separate God never sat well with me. I then began my 'awakening' to who I am in 2013. Initially, I found God through a New Age belief system, where this forum and those here has been invaluable on my spiritual journey of self discovery. So much so this resonated much more with me, as it wasn't governed by rules and restrictions associated with religion. However, the idea of a separate God still didn't sit well with me. I went on to study Spirituality, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism along with other eastern and western philosophies. It is when I was looking beyond ego - the lower self - I came to realise that we are all already the higher self. It is just that often we don't see this. As truly there is no higher or lower self, as it is ego that gives rise to them both. Once we see beyond this illusion (the game) of ego, then we 'awaken' or 'ascend' to who we are. This is the point that I've reached.

Even so, I still remain open to spiritual understandings, science, the view of others, and my innermost instincts. Where quite simply the logic for me outweighs the want or need for an afterlife or reincarnation. As I'm just happy being 'me'. Where it's so beautiful by its simplicity.

Admittedly, I still see the balance of positive and negative energy balancing out to nothing. Although I am always open to the views of your good self and others that may result in me seeing things differently. It is just over the last few years I haven't seen or experienced anything to the contrary.

I too agree that the Universe one day will return to entropy. Even so, the positive and negative energy will always revert to zero - nothing. If anything, this most likely gives more credence to my understanding - as if we are this universe, and this universe disappears, so does the opportunity to incarnate anywhere. So what then? another universe? possibly... but that is the far distant future and is a concept. As with time being created at the very moment of the Big Bang, and from our reality, all we ever have is the ever present moment. No past, no future.

It's even the same with dreams. As, please correct me if I'm wrong, we only dream in REM sleep. Other than this, during sleep, we have no conscious awareness be it in the dream state; in the waking state - or any other state. Where we also have no concept of time - so in essence is the closest we come to death.

So when it comes to life: Beforehand we were nothing (death), we live (life), and we return to the very same state (death).


This I see as beautiful nature in perfect harmony. As even if we accept we come back as a different 'ego', without any previous conscious awareness, this truly is no different than my view of when we die we as the universe incarnate as someone else. The net effect from our human presence therefore being the very same.

Of course I'll always value and respect your opinions and the time you take to write your messages on the forum. Where you really do come across so articulately with kind courtesy for which I am extremely grateful.

So much so I loved how you said:



I found that so very beautiful, and thank you so much for saying as I completely agree (maybe without the ego though, haha!).

Thanks for the message GR,

I prefer to have a meaningful discussion with you than to feel it's my obligation to prove to you that I'm right or persuade you away from your opinions. I do appreciate everyone's point of view although it might not be mine.

When it comes to spirituality we all have our own preferences and those preferences give credence to our truth. If what you believe to be self-evident brings you closer: to the Source; sense of well-being; emotional freedom then that's all that matters to your human experience.

Admittedly, I still see the balance of positive and negative energy balancing out to nothing. Although I am always open to the views of your good self and others that may result in me seeing things differently. It is just over the last few years I haven't seen or experienced anything to the contrary.

As I stipulated before, this all comes down to preference. As a professed skeptic, my desire is to always cut to the chase. I never leave any stone un-turn no matter how bizarre or difficult the information underneath it is to accept. The downside with this processes is I have to redefine my beliefs almost daily. What I believed to be true yesterday might not be true today. Lol The way I rationalize it though, it keeps me on my toes and at the cutting edge of what are known truths.

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by Claude

To Ghost_Rider_1970...

Unfortunately all you have done is come across as disrespectful, inconsiderate and insensitive to me and my views. Where I do hope you can learn one of life's greatest lessons - acceptance.

I'll always be happy to listen and converse with you, but only if you can do so in a constructive and respectful manner.

I too am therefore happy to leave it so we agree to disagree, and I do wish you well on your life path.

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by soulforce

Thanks for the message GR,

I prefer to have a meaningful discussion with you than to feel it's my obligation to prove to you that I'm right or persuade you away from your opinions. I do appreciate everyone's point of view although it might not be mine.

When it comes to spirituality we all have our own preferences and those preferences give credence to our truth. If what you believe to be self-evident brings you closer: to the Source; sense of well-being; emotional freedom then that's all that matters to your human experience.

As I stipulated before, this all comes down to preference. As a professed skeptic, my desire is to always cut to the chase. I never leave any stone un-turn no matter how bizarre or difficult the information underneath it is to accept. The downside with this processes is I have to redefine my beliefs almost daily. What I believed to be true yesterday might not be true today. Lol The way I rationalize it though, it keeps me on my toes and at the cutting edge of what are known truths.

I really do appreciate your messages and your views soulforce, where like you I do enjoy meaningful discussions rather than forcing opinions on anyone.

I too like to cover everything as far as I can. It's my inquisitive nature, haha! Indeed, I also keep my views open and receptive so I constantly re-evaluate.

Although from adopting previously applied concepts when I initially started on my spiritual journey I now tend to look at tangibility. Admittedly this, along with my deeper understanding, is why I have come to feel the way I do.

It really is a pleasure conversing with you, and I do thank you for your time and your thoughts.

[SilentWolfMan777]

Originally Posted by Staceyboo

Hi, what do you believe happens when you die I have been thinking a lot about this recently I work in a job were I see a lot of death and it always confuses me when I person dies there physically there but there not if that makes any sense I look at them and there not there I still talk to them as if they was there but there not I can't seem to get my head round it. Last year a close family member died of cancer and they promised me they would visit when they went but they haven't is this because they can't or is it because there just gone you live then die or our we just not ment to know what happens when we die until we die what are everyone's thoughts on this am not a religious person so don't really believe in heaven and hell but find it hard to believe we just die

What happens when you walk into another room?

You might not like this answer but it is true. Death is merely a transformation into a different spectrum of BEing. If you can't talk to fish don't expect to be able to speak to the 'dead' ...

There are ways to make the "there" relative to the "here" however, and if you'd like to play around with that - feel free to jump on my AMA thread.

[Aethera]

I believe when another dies, they go into a into a different level of being, of which where they don't require their physical bodies/vessels for their experience. Unless their work which requires a physical body isn't completed/finished in that lifetime.