Jesus is not God

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Throughout Jesus' life, he had only one brief moment of doubt - but he was in excruciating agony...probably couldn't think straight and let his countenance slip for all of about 10 seconds. This was atoned for in the end "into Your hands, I commend my Spirit' and so, He finally surrendered to God's will.

As we can see elsewhere in the gospels, Jesus had been telling the disciples about His mission of atonement.
My thoughts are that He was lamenting and pleading about the separation from the Father, more than the physical atonement on the cross which He would suffer.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by minxoto

I'm thinking that Jesus Christ is not God. He asked on the cross: "My God, My God - have your left me?" that makes me think he just lived his human destiny like the rest of us.
I believe though that he died on the cross and were brought back to life. I believe he did miracles. I believe he is a way to heaven - but not the only one.
I believe he was son of God - but so am I too.

You are very smart.
Jesus is my big brother...He is so close to God, ya might as well say
they are one...but, God Himself? No.

Not even He says that...I mean in all the messages since he left here.
(ref: James E. Padget and others...he is a servant as we all are...deflecting all worship to our Father.)

[Tirisilex]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So, as I stated Tirisilex, it was The Father's will apart from time, that His only begotten Son, born of the virgin and as long prophesied through the ages, would become the atoning Lamb for sin. (Leviticus 16, and chapter 17 verse 11.)

That, in His Passion, he became separated from God for the sake of humanity.
"Christ died once for sins, the just for the unjust to bring us to God."
This is the work of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead, who convicts, and inspires the elect to respond.

All of which work as One, and in unison.

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."
John 4:24
Spirit is not flesh Trisilex.

Revelation 1:8 - The Father, Who is the beginning and the end.

Revelation 22:13 - The Son, Who is the beginning and the end.

I'm not questioning that he is forever. Is Jesus by Gods side in Heaven? He is separate from God and has a will separate from God. Both yes have the same spirit but not the same mind and the References I Posted show that they are separate.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

I'm not questioning that he is forever. Is Jesus by Gods side in Heaven? He is separate from God and has a will separate from God. Both yes have the same spirit but not the same mind and the References I Posted show that they are separate.

So, we can see why the Triune Godhead is referred to as the Mystery of God.
Yes, in certain way you are correct. However, I also referred to you scripture. Such as with the Revelation scriptures, involving shared identity.

What do we read at the beginning of John's gospel?
"The Word was made flesh..." So, there was always co unity there.

Ms. Hepburn, you should know what He said to Peter also. About how they who have seen Him, have seen the Father?
Paul, it was I believe, also wrote about how "The Mystery of Godliness is great".
1Timothy 3:16
How that, the Almighty "was revealed in the flesh".

Now, Jesus could atone for sins of all, because? He was perfect.
That made Him worthy to atone for the sins of all.
Perfect and, "unblemished".
What is apparent?
That only the Almighty is perfect.

What about Old Testament scriptures?
In Daniel 7:13, the depiction is clear about the One on a throne which was rolled up next to the throne of the Almighty. Who's appearance Daniel describes as like "The Son of Man".

Why did Jesus use this designation, btw? To show how He is only a man? Or, to identify how He is "the One", Who was the One prophesied through the ages of biblical prophecy?
God Himself, manifested in the flesh, born of the virgin.

[davidmartin]

'my god, why have you forsaken me'
people always assume Jesus was speaking of himself to the Father, but don't consider alternatives. When there are alternatives
I don't believe God left him on the cross

I see the important of the Holy Spirit here, the Spirit Jesus revealed as the true Spirit of God that men had forgotten.
God couldn't forget his own Spirit - but men's idea of God can.
Mens idea of a God without a Spirit, only a distant figure with priests intercessing and no direct connection possible.... this 'God' had forsaken the Spirit of God
The 'God' of man had forsaken the Spirit - which was speaking through Jesus on the cross, the words given him by the Father

So maybe it was not Jesus who was forsaken by God, but God by man's idea of God
It is possible to see it this way

[Tirisilex]

The Book of John first chapter is from Hellenistic Thinking. It was inspired by Greek philosophy and mixed with Judaism. It is not truly from the Jewish Scripture but adopted from the Greeks. The opening of John is inspired by this idea of Greek philosophy and not in line with Old Testament thinking.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

The Book of John first chapter is from Hellenistic Thinking. It was inspired by Greek philosophy and mixed with Judaism. It is not truly from the Jewish Scripture but adopted from the Greeks. The opening of John is inspired by this idea of Greek philosophy and not in line with Old Testament thinking.

Stated without qualification? This is your perspective?
The Father is wholly God.
The Son is wholly God.
The Holy Spirit, Who Jesus called "The Comforter", is Wholly God.
The Blessed Three in One.

In Mathew Jesus stated to baptise in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you might like to address the Revelation scriptures I cited?

[SaturninePluto]

Posted by Morpheus

Stated without qualification? This is your perspective?
The Father is wholly God.
The Son is wholly God.
The Holy Spirit, Who Jesus called "The Comforter", is Wholly God.
The Blessed Three in One.

In Mathew Jesus stated to baptise in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you might like to address the Revelation scriptures I cited?

This response is more in line to your Stated without qualification response. What type of qualification is it you seek? That we are all here whom post Historians or could you allow for literacy?

It is evident the bible does have a basis in philosophies and religions of others. This is quite clearly evident in the book of revelations itself where we read about abaddon, or apolyon.

You see abaddon is a place in Judaism, there in the torah, which is commonly referred to as the bottomless pit. It is a place, much like the greek Tartarus. Abaddon is also called Apolyon, which is a Greek Word.

In the new testament Abaddon no longer becomes a place- a place where the demonic are held- a pit, and a prison, and begins to become an Angel- specifically an Angel of death.

This Angel releases for a time Locusts- which when interpreted symbolically are demons- to torment those whom are not believers for a total of 5 months (Just five...?)

There at the end Satan is bound, and cast into the lake of fire- for quite a long while- until we find later down the line, AGAIN he is released.

And the one said to bind Satan and cast him into the fiery lake? Well it is none but Abaddon, the one whom releases the locusts in the first place.

This is merely as I post here, an example of how both Judaism, and Greek Mythology is actually very much evident within the bible, which would indeed indicate the writers of that time period did have certain influence other than their own minds.

Why is that surprising to anyone? Considering most religions and philosophies do have influence from others, at this time there is not one I can think of that doesn't.

As for Jesus not being God because of "God why have you forsaken me"?

It seems we've forgotten, Jesus was well aware of some of the happenings to be after the last supper. During the supper he mentions one of his disciples will betray him, well he singles out Judas and offers him the bread.

From my understanding he very well knew he was to be betrayed, so then do we take his words "God why have you forsaken me"? As evidence he was blaming the lord?

Or do we realize he too said "Lord forgive them they know not what they do".

Do we take all the things said during crucifixion then as evidence Jesus was not God?

My personal opinion, is this is neither proof that he was or that he wasn't.

This topic seems I don't know.... people want to take what someone says as proof that Jesus was not God, so they can argue this point with Christians?

You see perhaps I've trouble understanding others. I am secure enough in my own faith where I need not go and argue the faiths of others on a discussion board.

I will say- Just because Jesus asked "God why have you forsaken me"? And someone argues well how could God forsake himself? As an individual proof.

To me? This just sounds we are all here to endlessly argue semantics, as opposed to actually discuss.

My view is personally not one way or the other has anyone proven anything to me either way- neither spiritualists arguing Christianity, nor Christians arguing spiritualists.

And so the question has not been answered.

[Morpheus]

Seems you've ignored my prior response to the question SP, as to why the statement was made.
That for our sakes, He was separated from the Father, becoming sin for us. Switching places with us.

Because the Revelator used language popular of the day, involving regional location, by no means indicates that the "Bible is based in other religions." ?

Meanwhile, again? I asked Tirisilex about the Revelation scriptures I cited, prior, where the Master shares identification with the Almighty.
Which we read in chapter 1 verse 8, and in 22 of Revelation.
In 22, note the description. That, He is not merely the offspring of King David, but also, "the root".
--------------
Regarding my response prior: St. Paul -
" That He had made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God, in Him."
1 Corinthians 5:21

[sky]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Seems you've ignored my prior response to the question SP, as to why the statement was made.
That for our sakes, He was separated from the Father, becoming sin for us. Switching places with us.

Because the Revelator used language popular of the day, involving regional location, by no means indicates that the "Bible is based in other religions." ?

Meanwhile, again? I asked Tirisilex about the Revelation scriptures I cited, prior, where the Master shares identification with the Almighty.
Which we read in chapter 1 verse 8, and in 22 of Revelation.
In 22, note the description. That, He is not merely the offspring of King David, but also, "the root".
--------------
Regarding my response prior:
" That He had made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God, in Him."
1 Corinthians 5:21

' He was separated from the Father, becoming sin for us. Switching places with us.'


Jesus thought he was separated from the Father missing the mark ( Sin )
Switching places mentally knowing that is how we thought, ( Separate from the Father) and then showing us the way to oneness through his teachings.... That's how I see it. Not expecting everyone to agree though