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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #11  
Old 10-01-2017, 02:11 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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You're welcome David. Personally, I've lost faith in humanity because when you start to study out the issues of 'animals' and then you look at what our governments are willing to do to people....there is simply nothing left to 'hang your hat on'.

I think we are the worst of all the species on the planet. Not only do we 'use' animals, but we do terrible things for our own convenience and in some cases mutilate them for fun and profit. Truly sickening.

Try looking at the Asian dog/cat eating to see the extreme worst! Then your eyes will truly be opened as to what humans are capable of!
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2017, 02:15 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Thanks Debrah. That was educational. I was referring more to the sheep farm I worked on as a teenager: the animals were treated well, never abused. Farms like that, of which there are many no doubt. It comes down to world view at a certain point. I'm not an activist so I don't look at the world in the same way an activist does.


I thought that was probably the case Baile and that's what the animal ag industries are banking on, that if people think of it at all, they think of how it was back in the early 1900's and before, where cows and sheep grazed on idyllic pastures and piggies rooted in the dirt and mud...that's why the 'humane' labels feature those images. The reality is far different.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2017, 03:25 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
Then your eyes will truly be opened as to what humans are capable of!
My eyes which were fairly 'open' already were opened even further regarding the things you speak of by the things my vegan grand-niece posted on Facebook (which I only subscribed to 15 months ago).

The spread of the spectrum of people's broad-mindely considerate and warm-heartedly caring 'relatedness' to narrow-mindely inconsiderate and cold-heartedly callous 'selfishness' is amazingly vast (more so than more people 'perceive', I think) in terms of its both its 'highest' evolutionary reaches and 'lowest' degenerations.

The 'spread' is well-referenced in Chs.14 and 16 of The Bhagavad Gita, I think:

"When Purity is in the ascendant, the man evolves; when Passion, he neither evolves nor degenerates; when Ignorance, he is lost."
* * *
"Valour, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, freedom from hate and vanity; these are his who possesses the Godly Qualities, O*Arjuna!
Hypocrisy, pride, insolence, cruelty, ignorance belong to him who is born of the godless qualities.
Godly qualities lead to liberation; godless to bondage. Do not be anxious, Prince! Thou hast the Godly qualities.
All beings are of two classes: Godly and godless. The Godly I have described; I will now describe the other.
The godless do not know how to act or how to renounce. They have neither purity nor truth. They do not understand the right principles of conduct.
They say the universe is an accident with no purpose and no God. Life is created by sexual union, a product of lust and nothing else.
Thinking thus, these degraded souls, these enemies of mankind– whose intelligence is negligible and whose deeds are monstrous – come into the world only to destroy.
Giving themselves up to insatiable passions, hypocritical, self‑sufficient and arrogant, cherishing false conception founded on delusion, they work only to carry out their own unholy purposes.
Poring anxiously over evil resolutions, which only end in death; seeking only the gratification of desire as the highest goal; seeing nothing beyond;
Caught in the toils of a hundred vain hopes, the slaves of passion and wrath, they accumulate hoards of unjust wealth, only to pander to their sensual desire.
This I have gained today; tomorrow I will gratify another desire; this wealth is mine now, the rest shall be mine ere long;
I have slain one enemy, I will slay the others also; I am worthy to enjoy, I am the Almighty, I am perfect, powerful and happy;
I am rich, I am well-bred; who is there to compare with me? I will sacrifice {as in temple-sacrifices} , I will give, I will pay – and I will enjoy.
Thus blinded by Ignorance, perplexed by discordant thoughts, entangled in the snares of desire, infatuated by passion, they sink into the horrors of hell.
Self-conceited, stubborn, rich, proud and insolent, they make a display of their patronage, disregarding the rules of decency.
Puffed up by power and inordinate conceit, swayed by lust and wrath, these wicked people hate Me Who am within them, as I am within all.
Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.
So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince {speaking to Arjuna}, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.
The gates of hell are three: lust, wrath and avarice. They destroy the Self. Avoid them.
These are the gates which lead to darkness; if a man avoid them he will ensure his own welfare, and in the end will attain his liberation.
"

Though I still tenuously cling to the hope that some kind of after-life 'learning' process serves to pull the heads of those who are headed in the 'wrong' direction out of their sun-occluding holes (as possibility-suggested in "Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd" John.10), I most faithfully hang on to the positive-result potential of the coming denouement, i.e. wheat-chaff 'culling' (the dynamics of which process I explain in Ch.4 of my free book).

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  #14  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:19 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Very accurate description of the monsters among us. Thank you for sharing.

Just guessing at what your grand niece has on her face book page, but if it's anything like some of the things that pass by my FB feed (as I follow Mercy For Animals, several Chinese dog/cat rescues as well as the usual cute puppy videos and family notices and news links) she probably has a very low opinion of humanity in general. I struggle daily to remember the bright points of light (people who reach out to help others, etc.) but more usually feel hopeless that 'we' will ever learn to be kind or what true compassion is.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:32 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
I struggle daily to remember the bright points of light (people who reach out to help others, etc.) but more usually feel hopeless that 'we' will ever learn to be kind or what true compassion is.
Studying reincarnation, karma and the eternal soul... that's what did away with my hopelessness many years ago. I would recommend it to anyone who is disillusioned with life. The problem isn't that life is difficult and cruel, which it can be. The problem is people don't have the inner tools to transform that disillusionment into joy. All the mystics and gurus and enlightened teachers and ascended masters speak of this and teach this.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2017, 04:01 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
Studying reincarnation, karma and the eternal soul... that's what did away with my hopelessness many years ago. I would recommend it to anyone who is disillusioned with life. The problem isn't that life is difficult and cruel, which it can be. The problem is people don't have the inner tools to transform that disillusionment into joy. All the mystics and gurus and enlightened teachers and ascended masters speak of this and teach this.
Echoing this, Debrah, I found accounts such as contained in Michael Newton's books, Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls to be very hope-helpful in this regard.

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  #17  
Old 12-01-2017, 04:36 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Thank you to both of you davidsun and Baile! This morning I seem to be struggling especially so you have no idea how grateful I am to hear words of encouragement.

I understand too, what both of you are saying and suggesting, and even though those 'understandings' are my lifesaver, I too often feel like my 'emotional arms' have simply gotten too tired to hold onto the 'life preserver'.

I did read Michael Newtons books quite a while back. Isn't he the doctor who regressed his patients to the points between their lives? If I'm thinking of the right guy, I've often thought I would like to see him. I think that would be extremely interesting.

While I have all of the 'beliefs' about OBE's, NDE's, life between lives, reincarnation, etc., I haven't been so fortunate as to have an actual experience of those sorts to change belief into knowing. I think it's because my personality might not fare well if I did, so I wait for when I really do know.

Anyway, thank you again and I hope you both have a very good day.
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:06 PM
Sarian Sarian is offline
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I watched Food Choices on Netflix recently and it talked about how we do not need to eat meat and that meat is not healthy for us, nor are eggs and we do not need milk... People do not want to believe that though...I was talking to a woman about this and she simply said "I don't care...well, I mean I do care about animals in regards to what they go through, but I like meat too much." I was sadden by her words but it's how most people feel.

Watch the documentary. It's good. I like all those documentaries like Food Matters, Food, Inc., Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. The meat industry doesn't want you to know the truth obviously.
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  #19  
Old 13-01-2017, 05:44 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Hello again, Debrah -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
I understand too, what both of you are saying and suggesting, and even though those 'understandings' are my lifesaver, I too often feel like my 'emotional arms' have simply gotten too hard to hold onto the 'life preserver'.

I did read Michael Newtons books quite a while back. Isn't he the doctor who regressed his patients to the points between their lives? If I'm thinking of the right guy, I've often thought I would like to see him. I think that would be extremely interesting.

While I have all of the 'beliefs' about OBE's, NDE's, life between lives, reincarnation, etc., I haven't been so fortunate as to have an actual experience of those sorts to change belief into knowing. I think it's because my personality might not fare well if I did, so I wait for when I really do know.
Writing back and forth is such a clumsy means of communication compared to a verbal tête-à-tête whereby clarifications can be immediately asked for and made, but it is what’s on the menu, so let’s make the best of it:

I am reading your saying your emotional ‘arms’ have gotten ‘too hard’, etc. to mean that your ‘feelings’ in relation to the subject(s) being discussed have become so trauma-‘set’ as to be unmodifiable by realizations that ‘spirit’ is ever ongoing and (so) ultimately transcends all physio-emotionally based and (so) personally experienced pain, suffering, etc.

And that the ‘truths’ alluded to in sayings such as:

The material bodies which this Eternal, Indestructible, Immeasurable Spirit inhabits are all finite. Therefore fight, O Valiant Man!
He who thinks that the Spirit kills, and he who thinks of It as killed, are both ignorant. The Spirit kills not, nor is It killed.
It was not born; It will never die, nor once having been, can It cease to be. Unborn, Eternal, Ever-enduring, yet Most Ancient, the Spirit dies not when the body is dead.
He who knows the Spirit as Indestructible, Immortal, Unborn, Always-the-Same, how should he kill or cause to be killed?
As a man discards his threadbare robes and puts on new, so the Spirit throws off Its worn-out bodies and takes fresh ones.
Weapons cleave It not, fire burns It not, water drenches It not, and wind dries It not.
It is impenetrable; It can be neither drowned nor scorched nor dried. It is Eternal, All-pervading, Unchanging, Immovable and Most Ancient.
It is named the Unmanifest, the Unthinkable, the immutable. Wherefore, knowing the Spirit as such, thou hast no cause to grieve.
Even if thou thinkest of It as constantly being born, constantly dying, even then, O Mighty Man, thou still hast no cause to grieve.
For death is as sure for that which is born, as birth is for that which is dead. Therefore grieve not for what is inevitable.
” (The Bhagavad Gita), Ch.2)

… and:

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (John, Ch.16)

even though you ‘believe’ them, just remain logical (i.e. mental) deductions, mere intellectual ‘knowledge’ which has no emotional valence as felt or experiential ‘knowledge’ and so doesn't/can’t serve as a ‘life buoy’ for you.

It is one thing to dryly ‘believe’ something and quite another to emotionally open one’s ‘self’ to actually experiencing its full truth-value. I would like to suggest (what I suspect may be the case, in your case) that there may possibly be a ‘blocking’ factor such as a past-experience-conditioned ‘attitude’ of personal unimportance, undeservingness or unreadiness on your part, which you have ‘rationalized’ and so ‘accepted’ as your truth: “I haven't been so fortunate as to have an actual experience of those sorts to change belief into knowing. I think it's because my personality might not fare well if I did, so I wait for when I really do know.

My guess is that such an attitude would have also hindered you from meditationally achieving and experientially immersing yourself in the state that Paul referenced as “the peace of God, which passeth all understanding” (Philippians, Ch. 4), which experiential immersion, if and as repeated at least, might have help loosen up the ‘arms’ you mention as having become 'too hard.'

So I think you may really need ‘outside’ assistance to help guide you out of the ‘hole’ you are in and free you to grow beyond the confines of the above-referenced blockages.

Hypnotic (past-life and between-life) regressions sessions, which you once contemplated but then didn’t follow up on, strike me as being an excellent, possibly life-saving, avenue – so I wish to lend my support to that idea. In one of my previous online conversations, whether in this forum or elsewhere, someone mentioned that Michael Newton had passed on, but there are a slew of therapists who trained with him, many in other countries than the U.S. You can get a listing from http://newtoninstitute.org . There is a Find a Therapist button on the bottom of that page.

I don’t know where you are presently living, but even if there are no LBL therapists there, my thought is that you should be able to find a reputable hypnotherapist who would a least enable you to experience the kind of ‘deep trance’ wherein you could/would experience the deeply peaceful, inherently relaxing and so therapeutic state referenced above. Do be sure to check out the references of any such hypnotherapist first, however.

I hope something in what I have written is of some service to you, Debrah. For what it may be worth, let me close by also saying that it is my personal felt-‘sense’ that you, dear one, have suffered enough!

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  #20  
Old 14-01-2017, 07:47 AM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
Anyway, thank you again and I hope you both have a very good day.
Debrah!
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