Do we have Free Will,if so,What is it?

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by ian77

Yes Gracey,I mean just that.Through thinking we determine our destinies.In one future life,every last one of us,will regenerate our physical body and conquer death and enter a state of conscious bliss beyond the realms of human imagining;We will become conscious as Knowledge,Justice and Love.
This is the ultimate destiny of every conscious self in every human body.
The Kingdom of God is within us all.

I suppose in my first response I stated that our views where a bit similar which they are but on the details they would differ quit a bit perhaps. Each of the things you mention I think are possible just the way of reaching it would differ. for me conquing death has to do with existing beyond the limits of the body evolved and replaceing if desired with a projection once in a higher plane of existence. bliss is the natural state of higher consciousness.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

It is not easy to understand this concept. We all know this. A good place to begin is to restate that the idea of free will is firmly connected to the flow of what we call "time". Time is nothing more than an effect of matter. More specifically it is keyed to the relative density of matter. Physical material produces very fast time. Time in astral or mental matter is slower. Time likewise slows in higher planes until it stops.

Hey, cool thought, something to add, I think you may have it backwards. According to Steven Halkings if you orbited as close as able to the massive black hole at the center of our galaxy you would be in a larger warp in space than here on earth but also you would age and experience the passing of time at a relative different rate than the person on earth, that is that you would live much longer than the person on earth even though the experience of time would be the same by both people. Also in the physics of light documentary it's stated that a meon burning up in the atmosphere only exists from our prospective for a fraction of a second but from its perspective via relativity it experiences incredibly more time because it is traveling much closer to the speed of light than us.

You stated a significance in that in high planes time would stop. My view being that time would speed up, I have two questions for you: what is the difference between stopped time and eternal time if in both cases you a capable of cognition; if time is stopped can thought happen? Personally I think time was never created in the sense of falling out of dimension but I think it's an inherent condition of consciousness. Also just a note in thoughts of higher planes and from taking my perspective of faster time; time becomes eternal because there is no decay because there is no mas; however, my thoughts still need work because I believe in God manifest, nonmanifest, awake, and asleep so still have to sort some stuff out. I do think though that when electromagnetism seases to have the energy to be in wave form it collapse and so does the dimension with it in to nonmanifest.

The way I see it is that consciousness is the basic stuff of the universe which from the physicists perspective is not consciousness but electromagnetism so I equate that to consciousness, faster speeds faster cognition, less congealed longer life in relation to our perspective. Also not sure if physicists do this or not but I don't believe in space and electromagnetism, I believe they are the same so consciousness/electromagnetism is also spacetime and as such condensed electromagnetism, which is what makes all matter and astral substance, is condensed spacetime.

Originally Posted by bartholomew

Consider this. Here is more. We are in the physical, ethereal, astral and mental while living on Earth. Time as expressed in these planes is familiar to us. Now consider this. As we send our consciousness higher and higher we find that time slows.

Ya it's a cool process, your consciousness being ties to you body and when in another plane that body happens to exist of a finer substance in a place of finer substance so time is diff in relation to the other plane.

Originally Posted by bartholomew

This is the reason that God can give us free will and yet know how we will choose. It is simply because on that highest plane all, every event in history, is in the "now". Do not fret too much over this. We are attempting to speak of things far beyond our capability to understand. We are lucky to be able to say this much.

Yes I agree and also a few thoughts to add. I like to think of it as the fractal of God, all divisions connected to the source, all moments relative to dimension. Also I see the creation of the fractal in this way: first as a whole, next the planes and whole, next planets and such with in planes and with planes and whole, next evolved life via atmospheres and star light creating higher energy regions in less energetic regions – evolved life existing with other pieces. So in the fractal as it divides, it being God/Consciousness it is a division of consciousness and original creative power so that all pieces play a part in creating reality but within limits of what they and where they are so we have free will, that is will to do and create from with in this experience within and experience with in an experience; see where all the same single entity but because of the nature of the fractal we are able to move independently within ourselves which is free will.

Originally Posted by Dustin

Hey, cool thought, something to add, I think you may have it backwards. According to Steven Halkings if you orbited as close as able to the massive black hole at the center of our galaxy you would be in a larger warp in space than here on earth but also you would age and experience the passing of time at a relative different rate than the person on earth, that is that you would live much longer than the person on earth even though the experience of time would be the same by both people. Also in the physics of light documentary it's stated that a meon burning up in the atmosphere only exists from our prospective for a fraction of a second but from its perspective via relativity it experiences incredibly more time because it is traveling much closer to the speed of light than us.

You stated a significance in that in high planes time would stop. My view being that time would speed up, I have two questions for you: what is the difference between stopped time and eternal time if in both cases you a capable of cognition; if time is stopped can thought happen? Personally I think time was never created in the sense of falling out of dimension but I think it's an inherent condition of consciousness. Also just a note in thoughts of higher planes and from taking my perspective of faster time; time becomes eternal because there is no decay because there is no mas; however, my thoughts still need work because I believe in God manifest, nonmanifest, awake, and asleep so still have to sort some stuff out. I do think though that when electromagnetism seases to have the energy to be in wave form it collapse and so does the dimension with it in to nonmanifest.

The way I see it is that consciousness is the basic stuff of the universe which from the physicists perspective is not consciousness but electromagnetism so I equate that to consciousness, faster speeds faster cognition, less congealed longer life in relation to our perspective. Also not sure if physicists do this or not but I don't believe in space and electromagnetism, I believe they are the same so consciousness/electromagnetism is also spacetime and as such condensed electromagnetism, which is what makes all matter and astral substance, is condensed spacetime.


Ya it's a cool process, your consciousness being ties to you body and when in another plane that body happens to exist of a finer substance in a place of finer substance so time is diff in relation to the other plane.


Yes I agree and also a few thoughts to add. I like to think of it as the fractal of God, all divisions connected to the source, all moments relative to dimension. Also I see the creation of the fractal in this way: first as a whole, next the planes and whole, next planets and such with in planes and with planes and whole, next evolved life via atmospheres and star light creating higher energy regions in less energetic regions – evolved life existing with other pieces. So in the fractal as it divides, it being God/Consciousness it is a division of consciousness and original creative power so that all pieces play a part in creating reality but within limits of what they and where they are so we have free will, that is will to do and create from with in this experience within and experience with in an experience; see where all the same single entity but because of the nature of the fractal we are able to move independently within ourselves which is free will.

That is quite a statement. What do you think of consciousness? I say it is not an effect but an elemental principle.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

But our futures are not static qualities. Just because we lack knowledge does not mean we lack control. Our futures are shaped by our decisions and actions now. So.... although we may not have unlimited access we do have unlimited control. This, in itself, is a catalyst which opens doors which shape destinies.

It is our duty to the creative force that brought us all into manifestation to use the tools which are presently available to us with what wisdom that we possess at the moment. If we do this we need never be concerned about the future.

We have input? Yet sometimes, often, it is hard to control one's reaction, deep grained negativities or fear yet is it not that determines much of the 'future'.

Thanks for this exposition, btw.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

We have input?

How can we not? Every word and action of this moment, affects our future. I'd go so far as to say every thought as well. And in many ways, it is thought (belief) that creates our physical reality and world. A person who thinks people are rotten and the world is mistreating them, will continue to be miserable every day into their future.

I have free will. Free to create a material life and spiritual path based on what I choose to believe about myself, people, and the world and universe.

[razzer]

the way I been understanding it is there is always a continuos set of potentials that can play out. even god or any spirits can only see most likely outcomes because of what we choose in the now will affect the immediate future. time is an illusion , take away clocks and calenders and each day just kind of occurs over and over. though I can see where aging and growth support the illusion.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

That is quite a statement. What do you think of consciousness? I say it is not an effect but an elemental principle.

I think consciousness is the base stuff of all. I think that all three forms of medaphysics are capable of all having a place in working as truth though the evolution of the universe. mind out of matter, mind and matter, and matter out of mind. that orgainizams evolve to gain the ability to connect with consciousness as apposed to evolving to become conscious, if there is a difference. I think consciousness relates to speeds of substance that a brain is a circuitry of nerve conections but all it really is in a record/memory and energy movement so other forms may exist, all forms varying in ability. It's preseavable that soil or mineral or water or ... could take on a function to energy storage and pathway but of could in the more typical ways we think of the things cognitive ability we be quite low. consciousness I think takes on two forms: fields and pathways. nerves are pathways, star light around a star or trapped in an atmosphere or passing in though a chakra is field form; field form also exists as a distinction between plane such as physical vs causal. I think the orginal consciousness as it was diffused in creating the fractual of the lower planes lost the use of the word, in the lower planes it would be more like unconsciousness but then matter condensed forming stars which was a slight elevation in a lower area, atmospheres/energy storage and filtation systems enabled more stable conditions meaning areas of less tempature extreams.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by razzer

the way I been understanding it is there is always a continuos set of potentials that can play out. even god or any spirits can only see most likely outcomes because of what we choose in the now will affect the immediate future. time is an illusion , take away clocks and calenders and each day just kind of occurs over and over. though I can see where aging and growth support the illusion.

Hey you are correct. 99% or what ever percent of existence is at best a collection of probabilities. You can ask a guide about your future and it well be multiple and only refered to as possible routes but however in physics and I suppose in spirituality as well a dimension exists where all moments happen at the same moment and so it is no longer probable but just a result of looking at how all the probabilities ended up working themselves out. Such a dimension is beyond the point of separation, I don't know if communication is possible with it, that you would have to ask someone else.

Originally Posted by shiningstars

We have input? Yet sometimes, often, it is hard to control one's reaction, deep grained negativities or fear yet is it not that determines much of the 'future'.

Thanks for this exposition, btw.

James: I have the same thoughts and try to remember that we can react with either the lower mind or the higher. But sometimes we are overwhelmed before we have time to decide. This is when we wax emotional. In this sense it certainly is fear that motivates and shapes. In the social landscape found on Earth today both high and low (mind) are clearly evident. Our choices often seem few and inadequate. In these times it is, as you say, hard to exercise control. The lower mind seems to have much more power than the higher. And what of the future? Then I remember the subtle world which lays hidden behind our more familiar one. Here is a more viable field of operation if we could only see it clearly. Of course after we stop being emotional we can once again see the path ahead clearly. Much easier it is to be theoretical rather than practical.

Originally Posted by Dustin

I think consciousness is the base stuff of all. I think that all three forms of medaphysics are capable of all having a place in working as truth though the evolution of the universe. mind out of matter, mind and matter, and matter out of mind. that orgainizams evolve to gain the ability to connect with consciousness as apposed to evolving to become conscious, if there is a difference. I think consciousness relates to speeds of substance that a brain is a circuitry of nerve conections but all it really is in a record/memory and energy movement so other forms may exist, all forms varying in ability. It's preseavable that soil or mineral or water or ... could take on a function to energy storage and pathway but of could in the more typical ways we think of the things cognitive ability we be quite low. consciousness I think takes on two forms: fields and pathways. nerves are pathways, star light around a star or trapped in an atmosphere or passing in though a chakra is field form; field form also exists as a distinction between plane such as physical vs causal. I think the orginal consciousness as it was diffused in creating the fractual of the lower planes lost the use of the word, in the lower planes it would be more like unconsciousness but then matter condensed forming stars which was a slight elevation in a lower area, atmospheres/energy storage and filtation systems enabled more stable conditions meaning areas of less tempature extreams.

It is inadequate to speak in terms of "before" the physical universe existed yet I do. In the higher spiritual dimensions a great group of entities which were far above mere human beings exist. If we were to try to describe what they do we would probably say they "express livingness". We simplify by referring to the mind of God. It is this which led to the application of great minds specifically upon lower spiritual "matter". At a certain "moment" this resulted in a flash and the beginning of the lowest of all yet seen. Our physical universe was born. It resulted from the application of mind upon spiritual matter which then congealed, slowed and became more dense than anything yet seen.

In the above we find, as you say, matter out of mind. More specifically dense physical matter out of higher more refined, less dense, spiritual matter born of the application of mind which, in turn, resulted from a focused mighty will. Mind over matter. Will power.

You refer to consciousness as having two forms, fields and pathways. I say that, as a principle, consciousness is, in essence, no more than the signature of the creative will which lays behind all. I would suggest that downstream from this we would find the paths and fields that you suggest. Deep within the primordial basalts of the Earth consciousness exists. Far out in the cold emptiness of interstellar space there is also the conscious signature of the beginnings. In both those environments more subtle energies are all invasive. They coincide and invigorate what we commonly see. They do not carry consciousness. They are conscious. Consciousness is best explained by thinking it as though it were a lingering result, a gift perhaps, of the great mind which created. If there are fields and pathways hereabouts they are also the same in the very highest realms. Consciousness is not a field, nor is it a cause. It is better described as being the personal signature of God. All of creation is imbued with it. As such it certainly would qualify as your "base stuff". Great post.