About Homosexuality

Well thats just it too. But nfortunatly, its as much of a social problem, as it is induvidual.

Making assumptions like " its unhealthy to be homosexual' and " your religion says its wrong to be homosexual", is one of the problems. Its technicaly unhealthy to drink milk past the age of 4 ( thats why over 50 % of us have some variation of lactose intolerance).

Here is a good example of what is done to homosexuals

A statistic is taken: 50% of all men have HPV ( this is a true statistic BTW)

HPV, is highly contagious, and is almsot impossible to treat, not to mention higher risks of genitle cancers, prostate cancer in men, tydroid cancer....

Now, according to the logic used by some people judging homosexuals, that would mean its dangerous to have sex with a man. And that its dangerous to be a man, so its wrong.

But when you get into the nitty gritties of it....

Men are 80% more likley to contract the disease then women are.

Now once again, ic an make the assumption, that women shouldnt have sex with men, becasue men are more likley to carry AND pass it on.

OF course we both know that is a joke. Its always going to be dangerous doing eveything when it comes to life. Even jsut being alive is dangerous ( harsh UV radiation, the only reason we have skin), eye lashes to protect our eyes from dust, eye brows to stop sweat from blinding us. Every moment in life is dangerous, its the ral reason everything evolves ( adaptation).

But when you have something like the bible, and interpretations of that saying its "wrong" to be homosexual, or have sex with a man", especialy in a boor that really relies on fear to get people to follow it, that makes the whole situation more sketchy, becasue your belifs inr eligion are no different then you sexual preferences.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I have to wonder if theophilus has even read your posts AngelBreeze. I have seen you give him information several times on this Exodus International and he seems to never pay it any mind... Maybe you should pm him the information so he doesn't refer anyone else to a faulty organization.

Warm greetings, Mind's Eye!

I do believe that he reads each and every one of my posts otherwise he would not comment on those he appears to pick and choose.

As to the other link re: Ex. Int'l, I also believe he has read the information but in his own belief system may perhaps think that it is still alright to keep referring Gays and Lesbians to that organization and that it would actually help them. It is often times difficult to change a person's belief that is deep-seated. That is to say that even though it may be snowing outside some will firmly believe and tell you the sun is shining brightly with hot temperatures. Therein lies the problem. But imho, if a person visits both sites, they can then decide for themselves how they would want to go and if they would find any benefit from such an organization.

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by AngelBreeze

As for the link you have posted to Exodus International, if you have read what former leaders have said, why would you still try to point same-sex oriented people there one just has to wonder?

I have read what they said. The question is, is there something wrong with the organization or something wrong with them? Here is an interesting fact about one of them:

Now a licensed family therapist in Riverside, Bussee left Exodus in 1979 after he fell in love with a man who was a fellow ex-gay counselor with the group. He speaks out frequently against ex-gay therapies.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/28/local/me-exgay28

Apparently he wasn't willing to give up the homosexual lifestyle but that doesn't necessarily mean that the group doesn't help other who are willing to change.

If anyone who is considering going to an ex-gay organization, here are some things you should see first:

http://www.beyondexgay.com/article/harm1 - an outline of the specific ways and specific kinds of harm these organizations do
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-03-0...s-organization - "Almost 90 percent of the other interviewees reported long-term harm: depression to the point of attempted suicide or strained relationships with family and parents."
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2008/02...sis-grey-zone/ - a description of one of the methods these organizations use to lower a person's self-esteem
http://www.whosoever.org/issue4/issue4_LIA.html - reports of how one group practically encourages suicide
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section10.html - evidence of how nobody has actually changed their sexual orientation. The so-called "success stories" end up realizing later that they are still gay and often end up living a secret life. There has never been a documented case of someone successfully changing their orientation.

The reason why they cant or wont change, is becasue there is really nothing to change. Its part of who they are...

A great example is your religion. ITs a preference, usualy based on your own tastes. You cant always help what you believe in, but you still try to dispite what other people say.

Say your christian. Christianity has done alot of harm over the last few thousand years. The inquisition, crusades and the elimination of pagan tribes are a few examples. Not to mention people putting their own straight uup interpretation of certain lines, to judge a certain group of people ( whether thats gays, women)

Not to mention the fact that pedophilia is abound in the church, and covered up by the vatican. Also, the vatican has withheld or repressed certain information ( think of galilaeo or capurnicus), just because it wasnt really in tune with their thoughts.

Now, I think its fair to assume its dangerous in some ways to be catholic/chirstian. Theyve casued so many deaths and harm over the last 2000 years, why isnt anyone talking about how dangerous it is? And it being dangerous, why are people following it?


Now you see hwo easy it is tomake something seem dangerous and harmful. While i do think the bible and its religions have caused too much harm, i wont say its dangerous, becasue its your own opinion on what to believe,

WHy does it have to be different for your preference?

Here are some further items on this subject matter.

http://www.redding.com/news/2008/jun...-suggests-yes/

Deus tecum, (\o/) AngelBreeze (\o/)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." -- II JOHN 1:7 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

[Perspective]

Deception, & especially consistently denying deception is the root of evil.
Truth and acknowledging both our divinity & imperfection is the root of goodness.
Love is wanting & striving for what is best.
Sometimes what is best isn't comfortable... in fact, sometimes, people don't even want to hear truth, because it makes them feel uncomfortable.
Yet, if you really love, you will shed light on harmful deception, even when it causes others to feel uncomfortable.

I have family & friends with homosexual preferences, who I love & care for - & some I worry about because of health risks associated.
I've stood up for them when others ridiculed them & I'm glad that there is more compassion for those with homosexual preferences.
Still, I don't want to see unnecessary suffering because of deception, so I post this out of love...

Redefining Homosexuality - driven politically, not scientifically
The American Psychiatric Association defined homosexuality as an illness or perversion until 1973.

The APA vote to normalize homosexuality was driven by politics, not science. Even sympathizers acknowledge this. The process began in 1970 with a systematic effort by a homosexual faction within the APA to disrupt its annual meetings. After several years of intimidation, the efforts finally succeeded. In 1973, when the faction met formally with the APA Committee on Nomenclature to discuss removing homosexuality from the list, the outcome had already been arranged behind closed doors.

Who is Homosexual?
Is anyone who ever experienced homosexual thoughts or feelings - gay?
What about people who flip-flop sexual preference - like Ellen DeGeneres's ex wife, Anne Hech, who married a man & had a baby. Was she gay, bisexual or confused?
What causes us to feel and act as we do? - Primarily our thoughts - that's what sets us apart from impulsive animals.

Changes in Sexual Orientation

Diamond found that over a five-year period, 48 % of a group of 80 lesbians changed their sexual identity and attractions...

In 1996, a London clinic worker reported, 25 % of its lesbian clients had had sex with a man in the last 6 months.

Is Homosexuality Inborn?

Researchers now openly admit that after searching for more than 20 years, they are still unable to find the gay gene.

Medical Dangers of Homosexuality

The medical dangers of homosexuality are also underemphasized. Its devotees show much higher rates of sexually transmitted disease, substance abuse, and mental illness. While they comprise only about 2 percent of the population, homosexuals represented 21 percent of hepatitis B cases in 1988, and 44 percent of new human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) cases between 2000 and 2003. They contract syphilis at a rate three to four times higher than nonhomosexuals. Anal intercourse causes hemorrhoids, anal fissures, anorectal trauma, and retained foreign bodies, and creates high risk for anal cancer. Among male homosexuals engaging in oral-to-anal contact, an extremely high rate of parasitic and other intestinal infections exists.
Homosexuality is also associated with higher mortality.

Quotes from Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/lehrman.pdf

Originally Posted by Perspective

Is anyone who ever experienced homosexual thoughts or feelings gay? What about people who flip-flop sexual preference - like Ellen DeGeneres's ex wife, Anne Hech, who married a man & had a baby. Was she gay, bisexual or confused? What causes us to feel and act as we do?

It seems as if this matter is rarely black and white.

[psychoslice]

There is simply no god judging anyone, there is no old man in the sky who is frustrated by what people do behind closed doors, you are the one that judges, you are the one that fears homosexuality, you are the one that has the hangup, why do most have this hangup, its because deep down we are all bisexual, we all have the yin, the yang, the feminine, the masculine, some have more of one or the other, or both as in the bi-sexual, and that is all it is, simple. The one who is afraid of the homosexual is afraid of his or her own secret desire for the opposite sex, because they have been told this is wrong they actually feel guilty whenever the thoughts of the opposite sex arises, they then project this guilt onto the one who is doing just what they would love to do but are afraid to do.

Originally Posted by Perspective

Still, I don't want to see unnecessary suffering because of deception,

Then why did you not look into that study?

http://usbigirls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:bi sexuality-in-women-is-a-third-sexual-orientation&catid=36:roc-stories

The study follows up on a previous experiment authored by Lisa M. Diamond in 2000.
In that study, the author examined the changes in sexual attraction, behavior, and identity of 80 lesbian, bisexual and “unlabeled” women for two years. She found that although these women changed their sexual identities and sexual behavior, their sexual attractions remained fairly constant.

It took me less than 60 seconds to enter in a search and find that. It took such little time to find out that the very same researcher discovered that the orientations of those same 80 women remained constant. Yet people are still trying to use the beginning of the study out of context as an example of people changing their orientation. This is not honest.

And this is what I came across almost every single time people cite a study or a "success story" that is years old. It turns out that their orientation did not actually change, yet people are still trying to use those studies and stories to say that orientation changes after those same people realize that their orientation did not change. This is not honest. And I know for a fact that believing these untruths is harmful because I have been through that kind of suffering.

Yet, if you really love, you will shed light on harmful deception

The countless hours of my life I've spent reading testimonies of ex-gay survivors, as well as my own experiences, is what taught me that believing that your sexual orientation or sexual interest can and must be fixed is very harmful. I have been through that pain of believing that I was flawed for not having the right amount sexual interest and believing that I was a bad person because I wasn’t able to change it at will... because I was told I had to have an adequate amount of sexual interest in order to be less flawed and I believed it... That was what was so painful and harmful that I became severely depressed and felt suicidal. It was the message that who I am is flawed and needs to be fixed. It wasn’t about my orientation in my case, it was about my libido, but I know that pain of feeling like I’m flawed and dysfunctional and a freak and wanting to die because of believing I had to fix myself by trying to change something that cannot be changed at will.

And I'm writing this in tears, while making a lot of effort to hold myself back and appear more dispassionate.... as someone who has been through unnecessary suffering that I would never wish on anyone because of believing in something that is not true and desperately trying to make something impossible happen. And what I went through is nowhere near as severe as the suffering that homosexuals and bisexuals who believe they can and must change their orientations go through. That is why I searched for a follow up study.

It’s so easy to say you do something out of love... But it just so happened to take less than a minute of effort to find that follow up study. You’re citing the same researcher who found out later that those women's sexual orientations did not change... while you try to call other people deceptive and suggest they don’t really love if they are saying orientation doesn't change. I am livid. I'll just be honest and admit that, since it shows anyway.

I don't expect you to change your beliefs. But I want to be very clear that the views I post here on this subject are the result of countless hours research over the years thoroughly digging up source after source from each side and looking into each study I found, reading testimony after absolutely heartbreaking testimony from ex-gay survivors, and the years I spent overcoming my own suffering over a similar issue that helped me to understand the pain they feel. I can assure you what I say is what I definitely believe to be true and my intention is to prevent people from suffering unnecessarily. And I'll say it again... it took less than 60 seconds of effort to find that link to the follow up study that shows that what you cited there is inaccurate...