In the Lord's Prayer, what is the "Name" of God to be hallowed

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by markings

Lao Tzu, born 604 BC, BC!, got it.
How come only so few get it today? Talking about that would be much more profitable than talking about God's name.

but the water is cold and we don't do much besides stick in a toe... and meanwhile we wonder if anyone really does get it or are we just imagining things?

Originally Posted by RabbiO

The only way in a translation to leave the tetragrammaton in is to leave it in Hebrew letters without translating it at all. While there are many scholars who believe that it was pronounced in a certain way in Hebrew, that pronunciation remains only an educated guess.

As for Jehovah, it is not a real name, it is a fabrication based upon a non-Jewish misunderstanding. In printed material that contains vowels, the vowels for Adonai are imposed upon the tetragrammaton as reminder to substitute/read Adonai where the tetragrammaton appears. Those vowels if articulated with the letters result in Yehovah, which is not a correct pronunciation, which then Latinized erroneously winds up as Jehovah. For that reason inserting Jehovah into a translation really makes little sense.

You might as well put "Lawrence" or "Elmer". It would be the same thing.

Except for the Fact--Jesus promised to keep making his Gods name known-John 17:26-- and he has--through his real teachers.
God put his name in the ot in nearly 6800 spots--wicked men removed with reasoning such as yours--they had 0 right.

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by kjw47

Except for the Fact--Jesus promised to keep making his Gods name known-John 17:26-- and he has--through his real teachers.
God put his name in the to in nearly 6800 spots--wicked men removed with reasoning such as yours--they had 0 right.

Every Torah scroll in a synagogue, every printed copy in a synagogue used by congregants to follow along with the chanting of the weekly Torah portion contains the tetragrammaton wherever it appears. Hebrew prayer books contain the tetragrammaton. We haven't removed it.

The bottom line, however, remains that Jehovah is not a transliteration nor is it a translation of the tetragrammaton and all your ranting about wicked men replacing the tetragrammaton with "Lord" or any other substitute doesn't change that simple fact.

I've pointed out what needed to be pointed out. I see no further purpose in extending the conversation.

L/shalom.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by markings

Lao Tzu, born 604 BC, BC!, got it.
How come only so few get it today? Talking about that would be much
more profitable than talking about God's name.

You are correct! Lao Tzu got it!

There is really no need to talk about why so few 'get it' today?
It is obvious and simple...when someone wants something they
spend the time and effort to 'get it'.
And that is where the 1 in 10,000 comes in.

If one wants to know the Name...the Tao, the Word...it takes seeking, researching, desire,
one-pointedness, steadfastness, reading, asking...
and sitting in stillness, often fasting for a very long time.

This I know from personal experience...



I dunno...I think it may just be about Grace, period...when it is your time ,
it seems to be your time to have the Awakening.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

You are correct! Lao Tzu got it!

There is really no need to talk about why so few 'get it' today?
It is obvious and simple...when someone wants something they
spend the time and effort to 'get it'.
And that is where the 1 in 10,000 comes in.

If one wants to know the Name...the Tao, the Word...it takes seeking, researching, desire,
one-pointedness, steadfastness, reading, asking...
and sitting in stillness, often fasting for a very long time.

This I know from personal experience...



I dunno...I think it may just be about Grace, period...when it is your time ,
it seems to be your time to have the Awakening.

The problem is not that it takes effort, the problem is that it takes effort apart from our daily lives. We have a job, run a business, run a home, look after our physical health, do community work, etc. It takes 30 hours and there are only 24. And now the gurus come and say you should also spend 1 to 3 hours every day for your 'spiritual work' on top of it. What for? A vague promise that in 10 or 30 years maybe, just maybe, if you are lucky, one could find enlightenment? No promises, no guarantees.
And if one doesn't get the wished for experience whose fault is it? Ours, because we obviously didn't put enough effort into it.

This is the major failure of most of spirituality directions, it doesn't form part of one's everyday life, to be practiced as we go on doing the thing which need to be done.

Originally Posted by RabbiO

Every Torah scroll in a synagogue, every printed copy in a synagogue used by congregants to follow along with the chanting of the weekly Torah portion contains the tetragrammaton wherever it appears. Hebrew prayer books contain the tetragrammaton. We haven't removed it.

The bottom line, however, remains that Jehovah is not a transliteration nor is it a translation of the tetragrammaton and all your ranting about wicked men replacing the tetragrammaton with "Lord" or any other substitute doesn't change that simple fact.

I've pointed out what needed to be pointed out. I see no further purpose in extending the conversation.

L/shalom.

Trinity translation has removed Gods personal name. I seriously doubt God would allow men following him to use a false rendition of his name.
No mortal on earth can prove-Jehovah is not correct.
So then you refuse to believe Jesus was the one sent forth by God.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by markings

-.. the problem is that it takes effort apart from our daily lives.
-And if one doesn't get the wished for experience whose fault is it? Ours...
-This is the major failure of most of spirituality directions,
it doesn't form part of one's everyday life...

So it seems from your perspective a spiritual path is near impossible?

I would offer that where we place our focus as we live our busy lives
is the effort.
It is as easy as thinking about our sexy wife all day while still in a meeting...putting a smile on our face or
thinking about our newborn baby we can't wait to see while we work out at the gym...with a smile in our heart.

I would offer that no matter what we are doing...we can be acknowledging God...for those more advanced...offering
up to God the best work we could do that day...thanking Him internally for the chance for this life and family and health.

I say that where we place our heart is the effort...in prison, breaking up rocks 20 hours a day,
being in a dungeon like Paul, or tortured as the early Christians were.
The Path is all about where our attention lies...because that is where our heart is...
and it can be placed on God...or the Divine or whatever one's concept of the Creator is.
The spiritual path is all about the journey within...driving, writing checks, burping the baby, selling houses.
I am no less busy than others..so this is where I am coming from, a busy person that knows where I want my heart...
and it feels better than any other place it could be...it is a stillness inside from the storm outside.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by markings

The problem is not that it takes effort, the problem is that it takes effort apart from our daily lives. We have a job, run a business, run a home, look after our physical health, do community work, etc. It takes 30 hours and there are only 24. And now the gurus come and say you should also spend 1 to 3 hours every day for your 'spiritual work' on top of it. What for? A vague promise that in 10 or 30 years maybe, just maybe, if you are lucky, one could find enlightenment? No promises, no guarantees.
And if one doesn't get the wished for experience whose fault is it? Ours, because we obviously didn't put enough effort into it.

This is the major failure of most of spirituality directions, it doesn't form part of one's everyday life, to be practiced as we go on doing the thing which need to be done.

you can do that if you want. For example it did cross my mind once that people by and large don't like waiting for things... but while waiting you can just think random/idle thoughts or you can look at things more closely than you would normally be able to while rushing around , you can listen to what is going on around you; heck you can even meditate while you are waiting if you want. None of that is possible when you are endlessly rushing from one moment to the next.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

So it seems from your perspective a spiritual path is near impossible?

Not so. We fail to see that our body-mind is not a single task machine. There can be many task running at the same time, e.g. I can write this while listening to music and doing foot exercises. 3 tasks simultaneously.

One of them may well be the main task while the others run in parallel with maybe lower priority. Putting time aside for meditation is 'attacking' the primary process. However, most of our lives are determined by lower priority, even unconscious processes. Working with the main process does little to them and therefore no or only slow progress.
What I am advocating is creating a constant medium priority process which quietens down both the main activity and the subtle processes working throughout the body to quieten them, soften their effect, until one day they have no effect at all anymore.

Unlike FallingLeaves who wants to wait for waiting periods to do spiritual work, this new parallel process works all the time.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by markings

Unlike FallingLeaves who wants to wait for waiting periods to do spiritual work, this new parallel process works all the time.

At the same time it is also true that once you eat a certain amount of food, you get full and have to wait for your body to digest it before you can eat more.

And the sun doesn't stay out forever, it rises and sets.

And it isn't always summer; seasons come and go.

Certain types of programming also require that some tasks sleep for intervals, so that other tasks can have resources.

I know that waiting is a hard pill to swall but otoh i didn't write what you said I wrote either. But I'm always happy to be maligned for things I didn't say or do!