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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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Old 20-10-2018, 11:55 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Paul of Tarsus - Where did he get his wisdom?

We were discussing Paul of Tarsus in yesterday's Bible study class and there was an interesting discussion concerning where Paul got his wisdom relevant to the teachings of Lord Jesus.

Some felt that the insights came during the well-known happening on the road to Damascus after which he grew in knowledge and wisdom by association with the apostles.

Others felt that he met the resurrected Jesus after the Damascus happening and was instructed personally by Jesus.

Still others felt that the Damascus happening inspired Paul to rethink his spiritual reviews and that he went to Arabia (and possibly Mount Sinai as well) to contemplate alone what he had learned.

Perhaps, it's some combination of the above.

In any case, I don't know and I'm curious if anyone here can share what they have discovered on this particular subject.

Last edited by Still_Waters : 20-10-2018 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 20-10-2018, 01:53 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
We were discussing Paul of Tarsus in yesterday's Bible study class and there was an interesting discussion concerning where Paul got his wisdom relevant to the teachings of Lord Jesus.

Some felt that the insights came during the well-known happening on the road to Damascus after which he grew in knowledge and wisdom by association with the apostles.

Others felt that he met the resurrected Jesus after the Damascus happening and was instructed personally by Jesus.

Still others felt that the Damascus happening inspired Paul to rethink his spiritual reviews and that he went to Arabia (and possibly Mount Sinai as well) to contemplate alone what he had learned.

Perhaps, it's some combination of the above.

In any case, I don't know and I'm curious if anyone here can share what they have discovered on this particular subject.




Wisdom comes from within, not from without.
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Old 20-10-2018, 04:03 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Originally Posted by sky123
Wisdom comes from within, not from without.

I understand that, but there is often an external guru who points the way.

Paul's radical transformation from a persecutor of Christians to a primary mover in promoting Christianity is a thought-provoking, very sudden happening that has sparked my interest.
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Old 20-10-2018, 04:36 PM
sky sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I understand that, but there is often an external guru who points the way.

Paul's radical transformation from a persecutor of Christians to a primary mover in promoting Christianity is a thought-provoking, very sudden happening that has sparked my interest.


Things happen suddenly in all of us, no mystery there, just normal behavior. We believe in something one day and then through wisdom we realize what we believed in is coming from outside sources and inside is much stronger. It can be like switching on a light, we become en-lightened.
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Old 21-10-2018, 12:07 AM
django django is offline
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When his sight was restored "Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus." He must have been informed about basic Christian beliefs during these days, and would have had a very open mind because he was personally convinced that Jesus was real and powerful. It is highly likely given how the human mind tends to create its own version of things that he might have started to add his own interpretation after these initial few days of hearing the story from these disciples he first spent time with.
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Old 21-10-2018, 08:23 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Originally Posted by django
When his sight was restored "Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus." He must have been informed about basic Christian beliefs during these days, and would have had a very open mind because he was personally convinced that Jesus was real and powerful. It is highly likely given how the human mind tends to create its own version of things that he might have started to add his own interpretation after these initial few days of hearing the story from these disciples he first spent time with.

I too am assuming that his association with the apostles and Christian disciples contributed to Paul's understanding of what Jesus taught but, as you duly pointed out, he may have added his own interpretation after those initial few days. I've always been interested in how great souls develop their understanding of the Truth.
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Old 21-10-2018, 08:38 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Things happen suddenly in all of us, no mystery there, just normal behavior. We believe in something one day and then through wisdom we realize what we believed in is coming from outside sources and inside is much stronger. It can be like switching on a light, we become en-lightened.

My experience is that it also happens suddenly but generally after a lot of groundwork and interior work has already been done. The trigger can come either from the "outside" or from the "inside" but ultimately that becomes irrelevant when distinctions of "inside" or "outside" dissolve in the initial glimpses of non-dual unitary consciousness.

In Zen circles, there were extensive discussions on whether enlightenment was "gradual" or "sudden". As you probably know, the "sudden" school "won out" if indeed that is the correct terminology. The standard analogy in this process is that of a chicken pecking on the inside of its shell to which it is initially confined and separated from everything else. The mother chicken discerns the weakest part of the shell and starts pecking there from the outside. The combined exercise triggers the breakthrough at which time the chick "suddenly" emerges from the limiting confines of its shell and sees everything clearly.

Perhaps, with Paul, who was a very educated and zealous Pharisee, he had already laid the groundwork and he just needed some trigger for his very radical, thought-provoking breakthrough transformation.
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Old 22-10-2018, 05:20 AM
sky sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Still_Waters
My experience is that it also happens suddenly but generally after a lot of groundwork and interior work has already been done. The trigger can come either from the "outside" or from the "inside" but ultimately that becomes irrelevant when distinctions of "inside" or "outside" dissolve in the initial glimpses of non-dual unitary consciousness.

In Zen circles, there were extensive discussions on whether enlightenment was "gradual" or "sudden". As you probably know, the "sudden" school "won out" if indeed that is the correct terminology. The standard analogy in this process is that of a chicken pecking on the inside of its shell to which it is initially confined and separated from everything else. The mother chicken discerns the weakest part of the shell and starts pecking there from the outside. The combined exercise triggers the breakthrough at which time the chick "suddenly" emerges from the limiting confines of its shell and sees everything clearly.

Perhaps, with Paul, who was a very educated and zealous Pharisee, he had already laid the groundwork and he just needed some trigger for his very radical, thought-provoking breakthrough transformation.





' Perhaps, with Paul, who was a very educated and zealous Pharisee, he had already laid the groundwork and he just needed some trigger for his very radical, thought-provoking breakthrough transformation '


I don't know much about Saul except the basic 'Road to Damascus' story.
I see this as an Allegory, so look at it from a different angle. Something obviously swiched his light on and what was previously hiding in the dark came to light.
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Old 22-10-2018, 11:48 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' Perhaps, with Paul, who was a very educated and zealous Pharisee, he had already laid the groundwork and he just needed some trigger for his very radical, thought-provoking breakthrough transformation '


I don't know much about Saul except the basic 'Road to Damascus' story.
I see this as an Allegory, so look at it from a different angle. Something obviously swiched his light on and what was previously hiding in the dark came to light.

You mentioned that you see this as an allegory and I won't dispute that. Personally, I think (but I am not sure) that there are a lot of Biblical stories that are not accurate from a historical perspective with Exodus being one of them. You consider them to be allegories while I consider them to be "teaching myths" so we are essentially taking similar positions on some of the Biblical stories. Without arguing whether they are fact or allegory/myth, I simply stick to the principal point which is being made.

Having said that, "something obviously switched his light on and what was previously hiding in the dark came to light".

Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet", addresses this from a different perspective. Using Cayce's terminology, he indicated that the "Light" flooded Paul's "superconscious" and permeated his "subconscious" but not all of it made it down to Paul's "conscious" mind since it was too much to absorb in that particular moment. Therefore, in that incident on the road to Damascus, a "light" did indeed "go on" but it may not have been a complete enlightening experience. Although Cayce was a Christian mystic, it's interesting to note that his readings are often very consistent with eastern scriptures as well.
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Old 22-10-2018, 11:48 AM
theophilus theophilus is offline
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Before his conversion Paul studies the Hebrew scriptures under the guidance of Gamaliel. He probably knew them as well as any human could but their true meaning can only be grasped by the help of the Holy Spirit. After his conversion the Spirit helped him to understand them better and also revealed new truths that were previously unknown. In his final teaching before his crucifixion Jesus said he had new things to teach his followers but that they weren't yet ready to receive them. Paul was the channel through which he revealed these teachings.
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