The Direct Approach.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by swampgrl

There is more tightly wound mortal coils around here then anywhere. Damn ironic. Enjoy.

Speaking of 'tightly' vs. 'loosely' vs. not 'wound up' at all (as in a voilin string being around its 'peg(s)' ... it strikes me that IF there was no 'strung out' 'tension' in between 'separate' 'end points', there would be no possibility of there being any muse-ical sound, "Om" included, at all!

Maybe I am misreading your implications swampgrl, but methinks you are image-in-natively extrapolating the idea of non-'duallity' beyond all reasonable possibility, or even if it were possible, beyond all 'desirability', as though it were some kind of ideal (which you apparently 'aspire' to).

Originally Posted by Iamit

Just discussion would be good and with some it is possible without all the personal stuff. .

Everybody brings their personal stuff to the discussion. Always.
The way I read these threads swampgrl is pointing to exactly THAT.

Only when we think we're beyond the personal is when the words start to itch.

With Love
Eelco

[swampgrl]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Speaking of 'tightly' vs. 'loosely' vs. not 'wound up' at all (as in a voilin string being around its 'peg(s)' ... it strikes me that IF there was no 'strung out' 'tension' in between 'separate' 'end points', there would be no possibility of there being any muse-ical sound, "Om" included, at all!

Maybe I am misreading your implications swampgrl, but methinks you are image-in-natively extrapolating the idea of non-'duallity' beyond all reasonable possibility, or even if it were possible, beyond all 'desirability', as though it were some kind of ideal (which you apparently 'aspire' to).

Throwing darts in the dark has no effect on the bull's eye.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Everybody brings their personal stuff to the discussion. Always.
The way I read these threads swampgrl is pointing to exactly THAT.

Only when we think we're beyond the personal is when the words start to itch.

With Love
Eelco

What I was referring to by personal is the attempt to dismantle defenses by feed back about a person you know nothing about, cant sit down and talk with in a relationship of trust. This space is far from that. When people get personal here its more to do with invalidating a point of view they disagree with by turning on those expressing it, with the effect of ending the discussion if there ever was one. Best avoided. When it occurs dont get involved unless you want this forum to become a slagging match.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought what is called 'the direct approach' is the meditation Ramana called 'self inquiry'.

What is usually meant by the direct approach is a response to seekers that points to all states being Oneness, including whatever state the seeker is already in, so nothing to be done because whatever is done will not be more or less Oneness than that which already is the case.

The problem can arise however that seekers find elements of the state they are in, and what they see in the world around them, unacceptable, so have difficulty regarding those elements as Oneness manifest. Eventually there is submission, as the inevitability that there is no alternative proposition prevails, and all is gathered in as Oneness manifest and the feeling of disconnection ends, even from those difficult elements.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Iamit

What is usually meant by the direct approach is a response to seekers that points to all states being Oneness, including whatever state the seeker is already in, so nothing to be done because whatever is done will not be more or less Oneness than that which already is the case.

Sometimes I think people just throw the word 'Oneness' in there, sort of like it's the right answer, but to me it doesn't mean anything.

The problem can arise however that seekers find elements of the state they are in, and what they see in the world around them, unacceptable, so have difficulty regarding those elements as Oneness manifest. Eventually there is submission, as the inevitability that there is no alternative proposition prevails, and all is gathered in as Oneness manifest and the feeling of disconnection ends, even from those difficult elements.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Everybody brings their personal stuff to the discussion. Always.

Yes, and (IMO) 'personal' views (etc.) is how THAT which IS 'sees' and chooses to 'live'

Originally Posted by catsquotl

The way I read these threads swampgrl is pointing to exactly THAT.

Yes, I 'see' that THAT is what she is doing, as well. My 'point' however was that 'pointing' to THAT is not - i.e. it 'finesses' - actually relating to their "personal stuff". Which 'finessing', I happen to 'see' as avoiding genuine engagement (with their "personal stuff", as though the THAT which expresses ITSELF through them were the ONLY thing that is "important".

Originally Posted by catsquotl

Only when we think we're beyond the personal is when the words start to itch.

Only? I don't at all 'get' this. I happen to think that the only way to really (as opposed to merely 'solipsistically") relate to THAT which IS is via relating to its 'itchy' (in many cases at least) re-presentatives.

Different strokes for different folks, of course. I just wanted to question the 'logic' of her choices by way of expressing what does and doesn't make 'sense' to me.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Gem

Sometimes I think people just throw the word 'Oneness' in there, sort of like it's the right answer, but to me it doesn't mean anything.

When I use the term it is not meant to indicate some sort of entity but rather that, despite the very convincing appearance of difference, All is One.

[revolver]

The feeling of not being connected is just that, a feeling, we are all connected, in fact there is really no connection, that would be duality, there is only One and not even that.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by swampgrl

Oh, who am I kidding, it's a forest, everywhere is the bathroom!

Unfortunately this is the situation and the attitude our Modern World has towards Environment/Nature.

*