Could spiritual teachings cause suffering and sadness?

[headincloud]

Monks and gurus sit and meditate all day because they're enlightened or they understand the path to enlightenment, this world is a manifestation of human consciousness hence they go in at that level and try to change it, they are serving God and therefore they are ultimately serving others which is what we learn at enlightenment. We are all serving, that is the divine truth assuming everyone hits the same at initiation which seems to be so irrelevant of different faiths. Those who are enlightened will be humble because of the first hand knowledge which is bestowed by other world beings or spirit to my mind and such an experience is life changing.

Obviously then we need to have put a lot of spiritual work and self development in of which psychic ability is a by product, we need to be able to perceive the ceremony and very few hit it before they're 50 it's likely all will have been seeking spiritual experiences over a lifetime.

Hardly earth shattering news for a lifetimes work but it's the work that's important not the key statement which wouldn't amount to much without the self knowledge and search for truth. We share our gifts, that's also what we learn and if we can apply these truths in our own lives we will further ascend, initiation is only the start it depends how close to source you wish to be.

Spirituality does not teach the dark arts and anyone claiming to be spiritual who's taken the left hand path as opposed to the right and is self serving is actually serving Satan or the equivalent but there is a place for these people too, how could revelation come about without them and their evil ways but they will be condemned for it and by it, most have no idea of the price of giving personal power away. Horses for courses.

[Moonglow]

Hello,

This discussion bring some thoughts to me.

First thing that comes to mind is take what is yours, what is for another leave for another.

To me, this comes as meaning stop trying to fit into something that does not fit.

We have our personalities and although inspiration and wisdom may be found in writing, talks, and practices, it seems frustrating to try and be something I am not.

When frustrated or feeling low about it this indicates to me that something isn't resonating or settling with in. This is when I find it is time to reevaluate where I am at and why I am doing it.

There has been some things I have read, been told, and come across in the past. At the time some of it just didn't make sense. It took some living and to clear out stuff with in my mind in order to make room to understand better.

Just because one is on a spiritual path, does not mean one stops living in this world. The choices and guidance one follows can either create a sense of contentment or a sense of unworthiness, IMO. Depends on how the information is taken, I suppose.

Everyone is worthy, for everyone is of this creation. Finding how to adjust, adapt, and change has taken me the willingness to do so. Still does
Just a part of living life, as I see it.

It is not so much about the goal as it is about the journey. Some may seem to be there, but that is where they are at. Being "not there", but perhaps feeling on the outskirts may be just a matter of how it is perceived. Sometimes the unbeaten paths can reveal new ways of seeing oneself.

I feel, I can either judge as having to have to be this way or that or take what life brings and incorporate what helps at the present time.

The one thing that helps me is to not be so hard on myself. If something inspires me, brings wisdom to me, or find guidance in it do my best to listen and incorporate into my life. If I get it, great, if not perhaps not for me at present.

Some things just take time to grow and blossom. To give myself that time and patience to let it do so.

It may depend what one is drawn to and how the "teaching"is presented. Would suggest follow the heart and trust in ones own intuition.

[uloDoe Youn]

The human experience must be purchased at a heavy prize, depending on how far your willing to take your spiritual lesson furtheron more deep through going.
The Value of the spiritual essence is to conduct and let simmer sink the whole of the spirituality that is true into the body of the functional matter of mind body and soul. This thereby meaning, you will let have to let it digest down like coffee brewed in the machine, whatever value you take with you is consumed by the H-ONE, the one who watches over that.

So dont take too much on, or else you need to digest it for further years of itself to come, the more value and gimps, the more you need to let it simmer.
Human Experience. 2 101,.

[HereAndNow]

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

I sometimes wonder what I want most in life.

Hi!

It's a big question for many ... how to combine spiritual guest with more worldly aims and aspirations.
Especially for people who want to get far in one or the other. Has been a big question for myself as well ...
now finally as I'm approaching fifty things start to finally get clearer.

But I think the most important question ... for anyone in this situation ... is in this one sentence you wrote - "what do I really want?"
Although it can take quite some time to figure it out. But if you want to be happy in life then what you mainly dedicate your time in life
must be that which you most, deepest want.
If you most want enlightenment, and work towards this, then this is the goal most likely to be fulfilled.
The achievements and successes in society ... they may come or not come ... as they are secondary.
But if these society goals are important ... then enlightenment may come or not come ... but its less likely to come.

And regarding what you asked about Eastern teachings maybe making Western people miserable ...
I personally think that what often makes Western people miserable is being so oriented towards achievement.
This orientation is what makes people unhappy ... Buddhism can tell you exactly why ...
and whatever people do with this orientation ... whether it's business, love life or meditation ... it leaves them unsatisfied.

Oh, and you don't have to live in a cave or in a monastery to achieve enlightenment ... if this is your main goal ...
there are some examples of people becoming enlightened while living in the society.
Indian mystic Kabir was said to have been a weaver all life etc etc.
Although I think periods of solitude on a serious spiritual path are always necessary.
And, well, Western urban society seems almost designed to work against any possibility of anyone
moving towards enlightenment or inner silence (what I think could be one of the synonyms for 'enlightenment').

Thank you for posting,
And good luck!!

Om shanti,
Damian

[Nameless]

I'm confessing I just read the poster's original post, and not all of the replies, so please excuse me if I am interrupting this thread. I always try to apologize in advance:)

The thought that I had when I read your thread was that you haven't found your "tribe" yet. People who are like-minded, who believe what you believe, who are doing what you dream about doing, who are doing things that you have interest in, etc etc. I think, as human beings, we are not meant to live out this life alone. Finding people who you click with makes life so much more worthwhile.

I don't know where you live, but I would recommend going on Meetup and seeing if there are any like minded people who live in your area that you would like to meet. I personally am from a different generation (I'm guessing here) and was brought up not to meet strangers, so my advice is to make sure the meetup is in a public place - like a restaurant, or something, maybe a park during the day. I know my daughters poo poo this, but they have spidey senses that keep them safe and feel if something is off - so just FYI, I am not preaching, just a safety precaution from a mom LOL.

As far as spirituality causing problems in life, yes, it can and does. As you "ascend" to a different vibration, you will lose friends who are not on that vibration. But you will also find new friends who are on that vibration. So it can be difficult and astounding.

Follow your heart - it will lead you to where you are wanting to go.

[lemex]

The thought that I had when I read your thread was that you haven't found your "tribe" yet. People who are like-minded, who believe what you believe, who are doing what you dream about doing, who are doing things that you have interest in, etc etc. I think, as human beings, we are not meant to live out this life alone. Finding people who you click with makes life so much more worthwhile.

I don't know where you live, but I would recommend going on Meetup and seeing if there are any like minded people who live in your area that you would like to meet.

Was feeling something similar as I was reading 31, 32, and 33 the conflict of modern times and the posts had no (lacked) solutions only seeing the problem. In modern society and ways everyone lives side by side we sometimes feel there is no choice like there was in the past. There is no place one can go. imo this is the way (now) of the present and the modern version of monisteries, temples, that is finding places and ways no longer available in modern times. The world has become far too interconnected and modern and we will have to find modern solutions. Be careful though as some are mere businesses.

[hallow]

I feel it can cause issues in life. There so many sides of the human mind. Sometimes you really have to ask yourself why am I REALLY seeking what I am. Some use spiritually as a coping mechanism, some a cover up into there own soul, some are taught this is the only way. I could give many reasons. Most importantly you really need to know yourself and getting to know your true self is never easy regardless of what way you find it. But it's the best gift to have.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by UntoldStories

I just had to get this out of my mind, it’s been something that’s bugged me for a while now, and it has made me feel like a spiritual being not quite being allowed a to have a human experience.

Ever since I was a kid, I’ve had a dream. I knew very early on what I wanted to do with my life, and I’ve always considered myself lucky for that, for having found my life’s purpose so early on. I’ve seen the confusion and desperation in those who haven’t, a sense of feeling lost. Whenever I meet such people who are willing to open up for the more profound and more meaningful conversations, I always find that they try to “fit in.” They listen to what other people think they should do, what society expects them to do, instead of listening to themselves. What they think they should do.

If there is such a thing as a mission here in life, I’ve found mine, and I’m so thankful for it! But I’m still confused…

For years I was stuck in the rat-race. Fuelled by consumerism, brainwashed by media to the point where I couldn’t tell right from wrong anymore until a depression came along and gave me the red pill. Once you see the truth about our western (and soon global) society and what this consumerist lifestyle is doing to us and our planet, you start going the opposite direction. Lately, I’ve been moving towards a much more minimalistic lifestyle. I haven’t got rid of everything though. I still find certain “stuff” of great use, and they give me great joy, but I don’t let the things take control of me. To me, having things isn’t bad, having too many things is bad.

Climate change and taking care of the environment is something I care about, but that doesn’t mean I’ve sold everything I own to go and live like a wild animal in the wilderness. That lifestyle would undoubtedly have the least of an impact on the environment. I was born into western society; this is where I grew up, it’s my home, it’s where my family and friends live. It’s my culture. You can always move and become a part of another culture, but you cannot undo where you come from, which culture you were molded by.

This is where I have a problem with the eastern spiritual teachings being preached in our western culture. I do believe that these eastern cultures and religions possess a great deal of insight and wisdom about the universe and this strange and beautiful gift we call life. However, I also believe that adopting these eastern philosophies while living and operating in western society can in some ways make you miserable.

Why?

To me, following these spiritual teachings has become almost a burden. It's like having a little devil on your shoulder always whispering things like; “you’re doing it wrong, you desire, you can’t have this, you can’t have that, you should do this” etc. I feel “performance anxiety” about how to live my life cause there are so many rules to live by according to these spiritual teachings. I feel trapped. People who are more “spiritually advanced” than me almost brag about how they’ve stopped doing this and that, making me feel ashamed for still doing those things, those things that add value and joy to my life.

My depression led me to this spiritual path, for which I’m forever grateful. I’ve gained a lot of insight into our universe, my life, and my place in all of this. I know I will continue to learn from these ancient philosophies. However, I feel I have to live life my way, cause whenever I do that, when I keep my head down and pursue the things I want in life, that’s when I’m the happiest, even if it means a lot of hard work, suffering, and sacrifices.

I know there’s a secret very few people know about. I've seen glimpses of it while meditating. If this spiritual pursuit was a business, I believe enlightenment would be the most expensive, sought-after product on the shelves. Even though my dream couldn’t be more clear, I sometimes wonder what I want most in life. Do I have to "give up" on my dream to experience enlightenment? Or will I find what I’m looking for while continuing to pursue my dream? Is enlightenment always the end station of the spiritual journey? Why do monks and spiritual gurus give up on having these human experiences to sit and meditate all day? A lot of questions, I know. I might be just as lost as those trying to fit in.

If you’ve read this far, thank you! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

//Peace

Surrender only works once you realize there is nothing to surrender.

Surrender is like a high level martial arts practice. It is not meant for beginners. for beginners there are purity practices and breathing techniques. After many years of determined practice then one begins to surrender.

Enlightenment is when there is no longer a separate being. In terms of physical feelings, it is like living in orgasm. So in some ways, yes it is the top shelf product. However, to get this high level treat, one must first endure many levels of hell.

In truth we have infinity. There is no reason to try and go straight to the top shelf. That is a belief of the ego, which sees itself as limited and time as limited, so it thinks it has to sacrifice to get to the top shelf as soon as possible because time is running out.

There is no rush. A person should go about doing whatever they want to do. When it is their time to transcend then they will. If they are feeling desire for the world, they should indulge it. If they are feeling the desire to leave the world and retreat to caves and mediation because the world no longer has what they seek then they should do that.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by shivatar

Surrender only works once you realize there is nothing to surrender.

Surrender is like a high level martial arts practice. It is not meant for beginners. for beginners there are purity practices and breathing techniques. After many years of determined practice then one begins to surrender.

Enlightenment is when there is no longer a separate being. In terms of physical feelings, it is like living in orgasm. So in some ways, yes it is the top shelf product. However, to get this high level treat, one must first endure many levels of hell.

In truth we have infinity. There is no reason to try and go straight to the top shelf. That is a belief of the ego, which sees itself as limited and time as limited, so it thinks it has to sacrifice to get to the top shelf as soon as possible because time is running out.

There is no rush. A person should go about doing whatever they want to do. When it is their time to transcend then they will. If they are feeling desire for the world, they should indulge it. If they are feeling the desire to leave the world and retreat to caves and mediation because the world no longer has what they seek then they should do that.

I have found most people seek out spiritually simply for the search of something better. I am one of those people too. It seems to be a never ending quest. Like a garden is a never ending chore or project. Maybe why we keep seeking is for the simple little treasures we experience along the way. That's how one elvolves along the way.

[UntoldStories]

I know it's been a long time since this thread was active, but I felt the need to go back and revisit some questions I'm still thinking about.

Originally Posted by shivatar

If you want a bit of honesty, I consider myself to be extremely spiritually advanced yet I choose to indulge in the "dark side" as I call it. I don't feel guilt or shame, I enjoy the dark power and rush of things, however I also accept the karma that will come to me sooner or later as a result.

May I ask what you mean by that? Can you give an example of what things are considered "dark." Why are these things "dark"? Who decides what's dark and what's light? Do you "believe" in karma as some people believe in God? Or is it more of a law of cause of effect much like any physical law in the universe?

If we take for example masturbation, which is a common and often discussed sin in the eyes of a christian (since I live in western and Christian society), how do you think of karma concerning that? How could that possibly be a "dark thing?" What is the bad karma of doing such a thing? In my scientific mind, I can't think of anything, except you might lose some nutrients through expelled seed if you're a man, but science has shown orgasms to be more helpful than harmful for one's health. So what's the problem?

What's the karma of striving for success? What if there are more negative consequences (in terms of karma) of giving up one's dreams to meditate in the mountains for years on end? What am I missing here?

Originally Posted by shivatar

Read wisdom for a period, then go practice and implement it into your life, journal and seek to improve it while integrating it. then when you start to stumble too much go back and read more.

This quote above is sound advice, but how does one know where to start?