Another one bites the dust!!!

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't see any purpose to this thread except that it gives you another reason to ridicule vegans. Coming to a Vegetarian & VEGAN forum to mention how it is a silly fad diet doesn't lead to a sensible discussion. Your title ''another one bites the dust!!!'' also indicates that this is all just amusing to you..

I don't know about this woman. Maybe she never really was a vegan but just enjoyed making and sharing vegan meals. Who cares..?
In any case.. N=2 is not much to go by if you're going to use a narrative of it being a ''provably (?) unhealthy fad diet''..

I am not a vegan, nor do I want to be, but I can tell you are reaching way too hard dude..

Altair....the conversation is about veganism (and it's pitfalls) so we are in the right forum......Sorry you're not enjoying the conversation.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't see any purpose to this thread except that it gives you another reason to ridicule vegans. Coming to a Vegetarian & VEGAN forum to mention how it is a silly fad diet doesn't lead to a sensible discussion. Your title ''another one bites the dust!!!'' also indicates that this is all just amusing to you..

I don't know about this woman. Maybe she never really was a vegan but just enjoyed making and sharing vegan meals. Who cares..?
In any case.. N=2 is not much to go by if you're going to use a narrative of it being a ''provably (?) unhealthy fad diet''..

I am not a vegan, nor do I want to be, but I can tell you are reaching way too hard dude..

I think there is a difference between fad diets and sustainable ways of eating, so we shouldn't conflate a vegan lifestyle with a fad diet, especially because there are a lot of omnivorous fad diets. That's not to say vegans don't go on fad diets, and it is true that highly restrictive, unsustainable diets are fairly common in vegan populations, and these are propagated by social media 'influencers', such as fully raw, more radical all fruit, 'juice fasts' and all the nonsense of 'detoxs' or 'cleanses' - the proponents of which cash in on supplement sales.


The other side of the coin is the extremes of the carnivore diet, which many people swear by, making the same sorts of claims as vegan diet gurus do, which are no less true anecdotally, but also not shown to be life-long sustainable. Indeed it a very rare few who can sustain highly restrictive diets, and if it can't be sustained, it doen't 'work'.


Now we see so many youtube vegans 'cheating' and we can be fairly sure that a large proportion of them who don't get caught don't actually practice what they preach. There are many more making videos called 'Why I'm No Longer Vegan' - and that seems to upset other vegans.


Vegans who can sustain their way of eating don't have too many restrictions. They cook food, eat starch and fat (which is also protein such as beans and nuts), and they make delicious food! They just stick to their moral values, and eat pretty much anything apart from animal produc


The issue is really, if you talk sense about food, using terms of calories and nutrients, the radicals will call it 'mainstream' to dismiss it, because they need to have their fallacies, which again, are propegated by diet gurus (who invariably sell supplements, detox kits and other such scammery.


It's not just Vegans, though. Keto advocarte, for example, talk nonsense too - and some of them have medical degrees, like Dr Jason Fung, and what he says is very convincing because it uses fact to misrepresent what is true. I.e. The nutrition narrative is generally misleading across the board. My approach is for physical performance, and that's why we know it 'works'. People do lose weight, others get better stronger faster, others can go off the meds they were on etc. and all of the above. And I'm not saying there is a special diet that 'works'. I'm saying there are so many ways of eating that get these results - but the bottom line is calories and nutrients, and that isn't overly complicated - just eat as wide variety of whole foods as possible, cut the processed junk and fast food, and that's 90% of it. Be vegan, be veg, be omni, same principle applies.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by inavalan

How much should we believe of what we read and see on the internet? Not much.

Schools should teach common sense! But who's to teach that?

I am not a vegetarian by any means but meat eaters and vegetarians alike should all be tough common sense. The world needs more realistic common sense.

[hallow]

One has to really think how nature made humans. Our bodies are designed by nature to eat a large variety of food. If we were meant to eat only veggies we would have stomachs like horses and cows. If we were meant to eat only meat we would have a digestive system like dogs and other meat eating beings. Humans have a combination of the two. One stomach long intestines. We can easily prossess both. We need both to be fully healthy. Nature made us that way. You can't argue with that. That's common sense. To hell with the fads. Give your body what it was made by nature to make into energy. If you don't like the taste or sight of meat ok, so say you don't like it, nothing with that. To make what you feel into fad and to get people just to follow you and your thoughts can be looked at as being selfish. So let's have a good meal of chicken, asparagus, swiss cheese and some wine give thanks for one more day on this beautiful planet and enjoy. Let's just be plain old humans for a day.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by hallow

One has to really think how nature made humans. Our bodies are designed by nature to eat a large variety of food. If we were meant to eat only veggies we would have stomachs like horses and cows.

Horses and cows are ruminants. Humans are hominids. We're likened to apes.

If we were meant to eat only meat we would have a digestive system like dogs and other meat eating beings. Humans have a combination of the two. One stomach long intestines. We can easily prossess both. We need both to be fully healthy.

Humans have no need of meat, but require animal products such as eggs, dairy for some essential nutrients from whole food.

Nature made us that way. You can't argue with that. That's common sense. To hell with the fads. Give your body what it was made by nature to make into energy. If you don't like the taste or sight of meat ok, so say you don't like it, nothing with that. To make what you feel into fad and to get people just to follow you and your thoughts can be looked at as being selfish. So let's have a good meal of chicken, asparagus, swiss cheese and some wine give thanks for one more day on this beautiful planet and enjoy. Let's just be plain old humans for a day.

Well, most people who become vegans don't remain vegans for life, so we find a lot of 'You Tube vegans' quitting - but they all seem to have ridiculous diets. The only reasonable 'Vegan You Tuber' I know of is called Unnatural Vegan, so I follow her channel.

[hallow]

You are correct, but that doesn't change how we're adapted to eating a variety of foods. There's a lot of protein in meat's. Protein is a brain food. That in itself might be the main reason humans evolved one step further then our primate "cousins".
If you choose to eat only veggies, that's fine, but as far as fads go, most of the people fallowing the fad are the ones yelling and screaming at people who choose to eat meat like it's a satanic act. There the ones who give vegans a bad reputation. The really funny thing is after there done yelling at everyone they go back to eating meat. I know not all vegans are like that, but the ones who are make vegans look really bad.

[Sapphirez]

3 things

1
Many vegans and even raw foodists eat improperly so it isn't a surprise if one fails or caves into eating bad foods again, and they don't represent everyone or define the title of veganism so this thread is as silly as one that might say "Another human dies from eating too many dead animals and cooked processed foods" which of course happens pretty much constantly sadly.. Fruit is the ideal food for humans and there are laws to follow when consuming it ideally, and most informed fruitarians include tender leafy greens and herbs.


2
Rah nam unfortunately the b12 in nutritional yeast is synthetic, and many brands use synthetics of other b vitamins in them too. I think there are versions you can get that don't include them, but it wouldn't have b12 in it. Purple nori is a viable source of vegan b12, as scientifically reported. But b12 is just a combination of bacteria and the element cobalt so the hype about b12 is misunderstood and misguided to say the least

3
As someone said this section of the forum isn't meant for bashing the subject line. I have seen a moderator at least once reprimand someone for posting negative unnecessary things here, which basically supports the notion that this area isn't for criticism of the topic, though constructive inquiries may be welcome by some including me, this obviously isn't that, and Lucky1 you've proven that you're unwilling and unable to engage in a healthy fair discussion or debate about the subject so really I don't think there is anything here in this section of the forum unless you become open-minded and don't just come here to spread hatred which is essentially what you came to do.. I don't think anybody should be unwelcome anywhere, including online, but you have no productive purpose here if you're not wishing to respect the confines of this particular subject matter, so it defies the intention of this entire forum for you to come to this section with such a lack of spirituality and clear malice

[Altair]

Originally Posted by hallow

One has to really think how nature made humans. Our bodies are designed by nature to eat a large variety of food. If we were meant to eat only veggies we would have stomachs like horses and cows. If we were meant to eat only meat we would have a digestive system like dogs and other meat eating beings. Humans have a combination of the two. One stomach long intestines. We can easily prossess both. We need both to be fully healthy. Nature made us that way. You can't argue with that. That's common sense. To hell with the fads. Give your body what it was made by nature to make into energy. If you don't like the taste or sight of meat ok, so say you don't like it, nothing with that. To make what you feel into fad and to get people just to follow you and your thoughts can be looked at as being selfish. So let's have a good meal of chicken, asparagus, swiss cheese and some wine give thanks for one more day on this beautiful planet and enjoy. Let's just be plain old humans for a day.

We don't have bovine intestines but we don't have big, sharp claws either. What matters is that we need a range of nutrients for good health, and we can get it from different sources, but it doesn't say anything about ''design''. Humans can get their protein from other sources so nobody is 'meant' to be anything. Eliminating or reducing meat consumption is about ethics and environment..

If you care about nature though you may consider reducing your meat consumption since the way we do animal farming these days is an environmental disaster. It demands most of the land we use and nature we destroy and continues to do! Reducing the topic to ''..We're meant to eat meat..'' is an appeal to nature fallacy. Careful with that cause people use the same line of reasoning in favour of a whole range of questionable beliefs..

[Sapphirez]

Originally Posted by Altair

We don't have bovine intestines but we don't have big, sharp claws either. What matters is that we need a range of nutrients for good health, and we can get it from different sources, but it doesn't say anything about ''design''. Humans can get their protein from other sources so nobody is 'meant' to be anything. Eliminating or reducing meat consumption is about ethics and environment..

If you care about nature though you may consider reducing your meat consumption since the way we do animal farming these days is an environmental disaster. It demands most of the land we use and nature we destroy and continues to do! Reducing the topic to ''..We're meant to eat meat..'' is an appeal to nature fallacy. Careful with that cause people use the same line of reasoning in favour of a whole range of questionable beliefs..

Of course humans are unique, but our intestines and bodies most closely resemble frugivorous mammals, not herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. pretty sure about that but I could be wrong and am open to a more detailed discussion where a variety of information and sources are consulted to reach the most valid conclusion.

In the same token I think it's safe to suggest that humans are designed to eat food that is alive, which naturally discludes old dead meat, and things that require cooking before consuming which rules out a lot of other foods which many misconstrue as ideal or viable candidates for the best staples of our diet. Food that is alive contains negative ions, electric and magnetic properties and other things we thrive off of that are destroyed with cooking and excessive processing.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

3 things


As someone said this section of the forum isn't meant for bashing the subject line. I have seen a moderator at least once reprimand someone for posting negative unnecessary things here, which basically supports the notion that this area isn't for criticism of the topic, though constructive inquiries may be welcome by some including me, this obviously isn't that, and Lucky1 you've proven that you're unwilling and unable to engage in a healthy fair discussion or debate about the subject so really I don't think there is anything here in this section of the forum unless you become open-minded and don't just come here to spread hatred which is essentially what you came to do.. I don't think anybody should be unwelcome anywhere, including online, but you have no productive purpose here if you're not wishing to respect the confines of this particular subject matter, so it defies the intention of this entire forum for you to come to this section with such a lack of spirituality and clear malice

OK....I want to clear something up here right now.

I have no malice or hatred towards anyone and honestly....if someone wants to be a vegan and feels better about themselves or more spiritual for it or healthier or whatever I think that's great and I really mean that!

The point i'm trying to make is not to bash veganism.....but I am wanting to bring some balance to the vegan sub-forum.

I will also point out that I do believe that under the right circumstances....some people can in fact make a vegan diet work.

If you live in a modern western country having access to all the different foods and supplements you need....it can work....IF you are one of those people who was born with a metabolism that can handle it....it can work.

So you say any criticism is not allowed???
So essentially you're saying that the vegan sub-forum should be nothing but a big happy hand holding, pro-vegan conversation with no push back or conversation whatsoever on the pitfalls of such a diet???

And there are pitfalls!

If there is going to be an honest and open discussion....that discussion needs to include talking about the problems associated with such a diet......not just everyone yakking about how great being a vegan is in thread after thread.

My opening post in this thread points out the hypocrisy in the vegan community. It also points out the fact that as a diet....it has problems.

The fact is that the vast majority of people who try such an extreme diet do not stick with it because they start having problems just like these vegan YouTube stars in my first post.

Why???
The single most common reason former vegans give for going back to a more mainstream diet is that they simply don't feel good!!!

So back to the discussion at hand!