Role Reversal in Relationships

[Element 5]

I'm trying to decide if my boyfriend has just not emotionally matured out of childhood, or if it's something else. Physically speaking, he always wants to lay his head in my lap or on my chest when we're on the couch or in bed. I will be laying on my side facing away from him and he will tap me on the shoulder so I'll lay on my back for him to put his head on me. I would be okay with this if it was a 50/50 thing, but it's not. He's got a lot of other issues too, like being messy, and never cleaning his apartment or car. I suppose, in a lot of ways, I feel like he wants a mother with the benefits of a girlfriend. But, this leaves me feeling like the only adult in the relationship. He does have a great job, making a great living, and he's very successful in that way. But, he makes about 3 times more than I do and he lets me pay for things often. And I mean OFTEN. That's my personality, so I do it. But, let's just say he's not chivalrous at all. The lack of receiving affection from him, but him wanting it FROM me, leaves me feeling starved for it. And I have two kids that do that already. I want someone I can feel vulnerable with, that will be a bit more of a traditional male. I suppose in a lot of ways I feel like I'm giving more than I'm receiving. And I believe there should be more balance. Like, I want to be spooned sometimes too! There's a lot more to our relationship, but the role reversal with the affection has got me wondering if there's a reason behind this that stems from childhood or something.

Until we make changes to our lives through expanding awareness, self-evaluation and the like, we're all prisoners of our childhood.

People are as they are. They can awaken to not being what they want to be - that's the start of a spiritual exploration no matter how you look at it, even if it's based on the mundane - say, a new career or something. But it up to them to wake up. You may be able to prompt it, or something can happen to the person to prompt it but they have to act. They have to work out what they need to do, with help if necessary.

Have you talked with him about this? If so, what was his response?

It could just be a mismatch. People don't change overnight and it's unfair to talk about his emotional maturity. He is as he is. Unless you're the person to "mature" him in the shape you want, it may be best to move on.

To me, emotional maturity comes from balancing emotion with the rational, when we can understand why we react as we do toward certain people/things, at least to the extent of recognising symptoms, signs, within our experiences that let us anticipate outcomes. If I might be excused a generalisation, men aren't too good at this. They hold their emotions at second remove - not that it's their dark side, it's just how conditioning has put up a barrier.

You may have a hard task. His priorities are different. My bf thinks I'm messy because he's excessively neat. I'm not. I leave stuff about because I may want to lay my hands on it any time. But I have system. If someone asked me where something is, I can lay my hands on it straight away. As I've told him - what you see is what you get!

♥

[Element 5]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Until we make changes to our lives through expanding awareness, self-evaluation and the like, we're all prisoners of our childhood.

People are as they are. They can awaken to not being what they want to be - that's the start of a spiritual exploration no matter how you look at it, even if it's based on the mundane - say, a new career or something. But it up to them to wake up. You may be able to prompt it, or something can happen to the person to prompt it but they have to act. They have to work out what they need to do, with help if necessary.

Have you talked with him about this? If so, what was his response?

I have not brought it up, but it's getting closer. I've already started mentioning small things, like the messiness.

It could just be a mismatch. People don't change overnight and it's unfair to talk about his emotional maturity. He is as he is. Unless you're the person to "mature" him in the shape you want, it may be best to move on.

To me, emotional maturity comes from balancing emotion with the rational, when we can understand why we react as we do toward certain people/things, at least to the extent of recognising symptoms, signs, within our experiences that let us anticipate outcomes. If I might be excused a generalisation, men aren't too good at this. They hold their emotions at second remove - not that it's their dark side, it's just how conditioning has put up a barrier.

His lack of emotional maturity comes from inexperience and from the fact that he shuts down anytime something uncomfortable comes up. Or he attacks in response. I'm of the belief that we grow emotionally when we aren't afraid of the emotions we have. He avoids them, rather than embraces them. I've caught him lying to me rather than admitting the truth because that would've meant he'd have to talk about it. So I feel like he's stunted in a way. It's just like with exercise. If you don't use your muscles, they aren't as strong.

You may have a hard task. His priorities are different. My bf thinks I'm messy because he's excessively neat. I'm not. I leave stuff about because I may want to lay my hands on it any time. But I have system. If someone asked me where something is, I can lay my hands on it straight away. As I've told him - what you see is what you get!

His priorities ARE different and that's one of our biggest problems. He wants to do things that most kids do, and I want to be an adult.
♥

Thanks for your feedback!!

[heartsound]

Are you unhappy?

[Element 5]

Originally Posted by HeartSound

Are you unhappy?

It's hard to answer that question to be honest. There is part of me that is content and excited about our future. But, I'm also very scared. I'm most terrified of being taken for granted again and I've seen so many men get complacent in relationships (mostly marriages) and they just quit trying. And I'm really a very laid back person. I don't demand much of the person I'm with. Just a certain amount of time and attention. I'm not sure if the little bit of attention I get from him is truly enough. And so, I'm constantly in a state of trying to figure out if we are compatible. It's just not a very cut and dry situation. I do know this, I would be very sad not to be with him. I wouldn't want him to not be in my life. And that doesn't come from a place of weakness or co-dependency, but rather from a place of being content with so many of the positive aspects of our relationship. On any given day I will be happy with were we are for the most part. And the next day I feel lonely and want more from him. It's a roller coaster for sure.

[shoni7510]

Element 5, you are describing a situation that sound like a mamma's boy. They are normally very romantic and want to cuddle up to their women. To them it is a thin line between a mother and a lover. It is very frustrating to be on the receiving end. Is he the first or last born or an only child or boy?

[Element 5]

Originally Posted by shoni7510

Element 5, you are describing a situation that sound like a mamma's boy. They are normally very romantic and want to cuddle up to their women. To them it is a thin line between a mother and a lover. It is very frustrating to be on the receiving end. Is he the first or last born or an only child or boy?

His is the first born of two boys. His mother did everything for him and sheltered him immensely in youth. She's a worrisome person, which annoys him. He does seem to want mothering from me in selective ways. Like receiving affection. But, in other ways he's very "this is my stuff, don't touch it". So, you can see my confusion. It all feels like it's on his terms. I don't think he was ever taught consideration for other people's feelings. Not to say he's absent of consideration, but he tends to focus on his point of view without realizing how his actions make me feel. And he does not express his thoughts to me about things. I call him Mr. No Elaboration. He says I love you and I miss you easily, but never TELLS me how he feels about us. Very guarded and uninterested in that deep emotional connection.

[7luminaries]

Element 5, hello there!

I think things usually resolve or do not in 6 month cycles, based on my experience. If you've given it 6 months of conversation and feedback and support, then if it were me, maybe give another 6 months to wait and see if things change and if you're ok with it. I think it often becomes pretty apparent within the first few months of that 2nd 6 months period which direction things are trending.

If they are not trending toward more growth and more giving on his part, then you will need to accept he will not or cannot give you what you need right now and in the foreseeable future. Whether you stay with him or not. Maybe in future he will take enough steps forward to carry his share of the load and maybe never in this lifetime. All that is speculative. All you do know is what he is doing and saying right now. BUT....If you stay when things show no improvement, then you are in effect settling for whatever you currently have as the maximum output from him...and you are owning your choice to carry the bulk of the relationship load.

What that means is that if you continue to sign onto things as they are, do not EVER expect them to change for the better. In fact, you may be seen as being unreasonable if you ever complain to him in future that you're tired of doing the lion's share. As far as he is concerned, you will have continued to stay with him and have sex with him and mother him, all whilst knowing full well he did not fulfill the bulk of your many requests (if any) to do more for you in return.


Most women need to do one thing above all else...pay hard attention to the combination of words and deeds.

Words alone are meaningless by themselves. Words are only genuine expressions when backed up by actions. And any actions in contradiction to the words always supersede the words. Some folks don't even want to deal with hypocrisy so they don't make any promises or use a lot of words.

Either way, actions (including words) trump words alone. SO...LOOK AT YOUR ACTIONS...if you talk and talk, but you suck it up & take it and don't walk...THAT is what men see.


I know this sounds discouraging, but the hard truth is that most men see growth as optional...and only if required in order to obtain what they want. Only the spiritually and emotionally advanced men will even appreciate one iota of your sacrifice in staying and remaining intimate and compliant whilst getting little to none of what you need. And so if the 6-month cycles are showing no change, you will need to accept that most men by and large don't value words over actions. And neither should you, when dealing with the vast majority of men...yes, even if you think or feel you know them well.

If you are ok with what you're getting as things stand, then proceed. Eyes wide open. With absolutely no further expectation of change on his part. Ever. Whatever else you may (or may not) ever get from him must be understood as pure gravy. Not to be relied upon.

Otherwise, your other choice is to leave. And to raise expectations a bit higher for the next gent, to a place where you are not carrying the lion's share ad infinitum. Remember, you always have a choice. And the truth is, we can't always live day-to-day with some folks even though we love them dearly. But to have the same conversation (over critical things) with no movement or resolution over and over again is like beating your head against a brick wall and somehow expecting a different outcome each time. It doesn't work like that just because we might badly hope for it, does it ?

There's another option altogether. If he's not up to carrying his share of the partner relationship load, you can always forego the sex, the shacking up and the bill-splitting (which he can handle on his own if he's loaded and you can save that $$$ for your kids). Instead, you can simply be friends. Real friends, without the sex and without you carrying his share. Where you can just hang out and talk and give one another support. No matter what else, you can always offer him your friendship. Whilst being open to a different partner to come into your life.

In that way, if ever you were to find he is really not into supporting you as a person or simply being your true friend without the sex and mothering, then you would be able to see it as it truly is and position yourself accordingly. Perhaps he is a wonderful friend and can truly be supportive of you emotionally just as a person, once sex and mothering is out of the picture. Or perhaps you'll see he has little regard or time for women he's not shagging. It's hard to say from here, but who knows?

Either way, all the best to you in finding balance and true partnership in your life. It's a universal issue for most of humanity at this time

Peace & blessings
7L

[Element 5]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Element 5, hello there!

I think things usually resolve or do not in 6 month cycles, based on my experience. If you've given it 6 months of conversation and feedback and support, then if it were me, maybe give another 6 months to wait and see if things change and if you're ok with it. I think it often becomes pretty apparent within the first few months of that 2nd 6 months period which direction things are trending.

If they are not trending toward more growth and more giving on his part, then you will need to accept he will not or cannot give you what you need right now and in the foreseeable future. Whether you stay with him or not. Maybe in future he will take enough steps forward to carry his share of the load and maybe never in this lifetime. All that is speculative. All you do know is what he is doing and saying right now. BUT....If you stay when things show no improvement, then you are in effect settling for whatever you currently have as the maximum output from him...and you are owning your choice to carry the bulk of the relationship load.

What that means is that if you continue to sign onto things as they are, do not EVER expect them to change for the better. In fact, you may be seen as being unreasonable if you ever complain to him in future that you're tired of doing the lion's share. As far as he is concerned, you will have continued to stay with him and have sex with him and mother him, all whilst knowing full well he did not fulfill the bulk of your many requests (if any) to do more for you in return.


Most women need to do one thing above all else...pay hard attention to the combination of words and deeds.

Words alone are meaningless by themselves. Words are only genuine expressions when backed up by actions. And any actions in contradiction to the words always supersede the words. Some folks don't even want to deal with hypocrisy so they don't make any promises or use a lot of words.

Either way, actions (including words) trump words alone. SO...LOOK AT YOUR ACTIONS...if you talk and talk, but you suck it up & take it and don't walk...THAT is what men see.


I know this sounds discouraging, but the hard truth is that most men see growth as optional...and only if required in order to obtain what they want. Only the spiritually and emotionally advanced men will even appreciate one iota of your sacrifice in staying and remaining intimate and compliant whilst getting little to none of what you need. And so if the 6-month cycles are showing no change, you will need to accept that most men by and large don't value words over actions. And neither should you, when dealing with the vast majority of men...yes, even if you think or feel you know them well.

If you are ok with what you're getting as things stand, then proceed. Eyes wide open. With absolutely no further expectation of change on his part. Ever. Whatever else you may (or may not) ever get from him must be understood as pure gravy. Not to be relied upon.

Otherwise, your other choice is to leave. And to raise expectations a bit higher for the next gent, to a place where you are not carrying the lion's share ad infinitum. Remember, you always have a choice. And the truth is, we can't always live day-to-day with some folks even though we love them dearly. But to have the same conversation (over critical things) with no movement or resolution over and over again is like beating your head against a brick wall and somehow expecting a different outcome each time. It doesn't work like that just because we might badly hope for it, does it ?

There's another option altogether. If he's not up to carrying his share of the partner relationship load, you can always forego the sex, the shacking up and the bill-splitting (which he can handle on his own if he's loaded and you can save that $$$ for your kids). Instead, you can simply be friends. Real friends, without the sex and without you carrying his share. Where you can just hang out and talk and give one another support. No matter what else, you can always offer him your friendship. Whilst being open to a different partner to come into your life.

In that way, if ever you were to find he is really not into supporting you as a person or simply being your true friend without the sex and mothering, then you would be able to see it as it truly is and position yourself accordingly. Perhaps he is a wonderful friend and can truly be supportive of you emotionally just as a person, once sex and mothering is out of the picture. Or perhaps you'll see he has little regard or time for women he's not shagging. It's hard to say from here, but who knows?

Either way, all the best to you in finding balance and true partnership in your life. It's a universal issue for most of humanity at this time

Peace & blessings
7L

Soooo many good points here! Thank you so much for your insight. I think I'm understanding more and more about his personality. And part of that is that with him being extremely independent, I am actually the icing on the cake for him. He doesn't NEED me, but he wants me. And so, he doesn't want the drama or the work I think. He really just wants to be who he is and have someone love him for it, without judgement. I think he thinks that person is me because I avoid bringing up the things that bother me for fear of not being easy breezy.

[7luminaries]

Element

First of all...everyone wants to be loved as they are without judgment.
He is not special that way, tu sabes? We all welcome that.

But even if you love him as he is and no judgment, that doesn't mean he is mature enough to be in a mature, balanced, emotionally strong and generous, authentically loving partnership.

Plus, loving someone as they are doesn't mean you have to be with them, nor take their rubbish. You can love him from afar, no contact or limited contact, or you can love him simply as a person and as a friend. You can always include him as an active friend in your life day-to-day if he is not toxic, if he respects your boundaries and your needs, and if he is able to be a good friend and doesn't continually take from you more than he gives.

True friendship is a potentially reasonable, sustainable, mutually honouring and therefore authentically loving alternative to the "sex and mothering and some free meals for me, and sod all for you" deal he has currently got set up with you. If in fact he can be a good and true friend to you and actually give back a little -- without always taking via sex and mothering and free meals, etc. -- then I'd say it sounds like a much better deal that what's currently on offer. Where he actively values and supports your needs equally to his own and same for you re: him.

I have to say, though, I find it just appalling that he has plenty of money but frequently allows you to shell out for expenses, when he knows you have kids to support. Especially for extras like going out that are not necessary expenses in your budget. That is selfish and callous on his part almost beyond belief...almost like controlling someone through extortion, or breaking their bank just to toy with them and see how far they will go for you. And I think you are right to ask why and furthermore, to draw a hard line and say NO.

Good luck and stay strong ...and do NOT stand for gaslighting and mindeffery on his part. Nor I hope for endless rounds of empty words, per prior.

Peace & blessings
7L