What did the Buddah actually achieve?

[sky]

Quote BlueSky 'Its about the initial reaction which in the case of the Robin's seems completely without emotion'

How do you Judge if others have emotions?

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by sky123

Quote BlueSky 'Its about the initial reaction which in the case of the Robin's seems completely without emotion'

How do you Judge if others have emotions?

I don't but what I do is I put together all I know and have experienced with wildlife and surmise that it seems in this case that their reaction or lack of is part of being a bird. Some animals eat their young and while that is extreme, I feel that it illustrates my point.
More importantly, being that you spoke highly of how they reacted, how do you envision The Buddha reacting in a similar human type scenerio? Apart from moving on and such.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I don't but what I do is I put together all I know and have experienced with wildlife and surmise that it seems in this case that their reaction or lack of is part of being a bird. Some animals eat their young and while that is extreme, I feel that it illustrates my point.
More importantly, being that you spoke highly of how they reacted, how do you envision The Buddha reacting in a similar human type scenerio? Apart from moving on and such.

He would react as per his teachings, I imagine.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

how do you envision The Buddha reacting in a similar human type scenerio?

If we are into imaginary speculation mode this is what I personally speculate*:

1. The Buddha is the Knower of the Worlds. Knowing is not knowing. In not knowing, he understands the All.
2. The Buddha has personally seen and has intimate mastery of dependent origination - he is both the teacher of dukkha, enlightenment and Nibbana, and he also knows that which is untouched by consciousness.

Where water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing:
There the stars do not shine,
the sun is not visible,
the moon does not appear,
darkness is not found.
And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has known [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.

Bahiya Sutra

3. The Buddha is deeply compassionate
4. The Buddha is wise and works for the salvation of suffering beings who come to him for guidance

5. The Buddha can feel sad, this is his humanity and compassion
6. The Buddha knows what this is, and how all that has seemingly left is still with us today - this is his wisdom
7. The Buddha is truly a teacher worth venerating

*Key word of this post = speculate

BT

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by sky123

He would react as per his teachings, I imagine.

Thanks Sky although I'm not sure what that means.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by blossomingtree

If we are into imaginary speculation mode this is what I personally speculate*:

1. The Buddha is the Knower of the Worlds. Knowing is not knowing. In not knowing, he understands the All.
2. The Buddha has personally seen and has intimate mastery of dependent origination - he is both the teacher of dukkha, enlightenment and Nibbana, and he also knows that which is untouched by consciousness.

Where water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing:
There the stars do not shine,
the sun is not visible,
the moon does not appear,
darkness is not found.
And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has known [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.

Bahiya Sutra

3. The Buddha is deeply compassionate
4. The Buddha is wise and works for the salvation of suffering beings who come to him for guidance

5. The Buddha can feel sad, this is his humanity and compassion
6. The Buddha knows what this is, and how all that has seemingly left is still with us today - this is his wisdom
7. The Buddha is truly a teacher worth venerating

*Key word of this post = speculate

BT

Thanks BT.

[sky]

[quote=BlueSky]Thanks Sky although I'm not sure what that means.[/QUOTE


He experienced what he taught so his reactions are in his teachings, thats what I meant

[Nitiananda]

You have no idea what is even the attainment of liberation at the level of raja-kundalini yoga, not to mention the attainment of liberation from the Buddha Sakyamuni ..

To understand in general what is the achievement of liberation and realization, it is necessary to explain the entire stratura of the world of passions. It is believed that the world of passions consists of the world of Hell, the animal world, the world of lower spirits, the world of people, the world of the asuras, the world of the heavens of passions.
And absolutely all souls are reborn constantly in these miras of passions. It is called Samsara.
And the attainment of liberation in raja and kundalini yoga is a way to destroy your worldly desires (passions) to such an extent that there is an ability to stop breathing and heart. After that, a person moves away from this world, attachments are destroyed and a practitioner can be reborn in the holy heavens. This is a world that goes first of the worlds of the upper astral world. There life lasts from creation to destruction of the universe.

The next level of achievement is the attainment of liberation in Jnana yoga (mahamudra). With the help of this yoga, all the experience accumulated in past incarnations can be destroyed so much that it will rise above the worlds of the upper astral world and reach worlds where life lasts for 20 thousand kalpas, 40 thousand kalpas , 60 thousand kalp.
This achievement is already called the level of the Arhats.
The next step is yoga of Mahayana-yoga of saviors. A person goes to people and spreads and preaches the law. And weakens the distinction between himself and others. Practice of salvation accumulates great merits.
In Jnana Yoga, a person eradicates his own karma. As a result, he seems to receive a certificate that allows him to be reborn in a higher world. However, this is not enough, because the people with whom he meets, still have bad information about him. If such information is preserved, a person will be forced to reborn in the six worlds of the World of Passion.
However, due to the achievement of perfection in Mahayana yoga, bad information laid down in other people disappears, because bad information usually disappears if a person has matured a soul and can love, compass and praise all people. No one will feel malice or hostility towards him.

So Mahayana Yoga is complete. Where does the person go now? He becomes an inhabitant of the Astral world. What does he do in the Astral world? We'll talk about this tomorrow. Then he goes on to Astral Yoga and Causal Yoga. Having attained perfection in the causal yoga, he enters the Mahayana, that is, he attains the Ultimate Liberation.
In the scripture of Sakyamuni Buddha there is such a phrase: "I did everything that I had to do. I have nothing else to do. "

The experience of Astral yoga is quite different from the experience you often experience when you leave the physical body. Human consciousness, as a rule, leaves the physical body and observes various phenomena. On the contrary, in the Astral world a person enters, transferring his consciousness into a body called in the Astral Yoga "the Body of the Award". And then he can really experience the phenomena himself, and not just watch them.
The Body of the Award is usually in the Vishudd Chakra, in the person's throat. It consists of a subtle substance. It feels like something resembling, say, frosted glass. And the Astral world also feels like a world made of frosted glass.
The astral world consists of six worlds. It has six steps. And the higher the world, the more intense the light becomes.

What does man do in the Astral world? In short, replaces the information. Suppose, in his past life, he accumulated a bad karma of murder. This karma can be observed in the form of a vision when it is projected from the causal world into the Astral world.
If a person dies having this kind of karma in the Astral world, he will get injured and will be forced to suffer at the level of the Body of the Award. Therefore, he must destroy the projected phenomenon.
By the way, I already told you that karma in this life must be eradicated by means of the analysis used in Jnana Yoga. Therefore, the Astral yoga is meant for eradicating karma in the Astral world, just as it is done with the help of Jnana Yoga in this world

THE CASUAL WORLD THE WORLD OF THOUGHT
The practitioner of the causal yoga carries his consciousness into the Essential body with the goal of entering the Upper Causal world. The essential body consists exclusively of consciousness.
In the causal world, there is no substance, there are only thoughts. As I told you, the bottom third forms a triple structure, overlapped by the Miracle of the Phenomena and the Lower Astral World. The next third forms a double structure, overlapped by the Upper Astral world. The remaining third is the authentic Causal world, which is not overlapped by any other worlds.
The lower part of the causal world is a world of utter darkness. There is also the so-called Eternal Hell.
It gradually becomes lighter when you are getting higher and higher.

INFORMATION REPRESENTED IN LIGHT, CHANGES KARMU
In the causal world, information exists in the form of light. More precisely, the strength of light, its color and shape
And when you get to the real Causal world, not connected in any way with the World of Japons, or with the Astral World, you discover a colorless world. That's why in Buddhism this world is called "peace without color". Also in this world: the higher you rise, the brighter the world becomes. And if you break through the top of the Causal World, you are in Mahayana.
INFORMATION REPRESENTED IN LIGHT, CHANGES KARMU
In the causal world, information exists in the form of light. More precisely, the strength of light, its color and shape is actually information itself. And based on this information, a person carefully analyzes his own karma and performs a complete replacement of information, just as he did in the Astral world.
And since this process takes some time, Samadhi, of course, must be deep. I often repeat that the three-hour Samadhi is an indispensable condition for achieving Liberation, for in one hour a man can not break through into the causal world. But if he can enter Samadhi for three hours, he can break into the Causal world. Now I turn to the most important topic.
The speed of passing through the Astral world and falling into the causal world grows as we progress in spiritual practice. Of course, in the World of Phenomena and the Astral world there are gods of guardians. At first they slowly appear before us, and we cross these worlds, leading with them unhurried conversations.
But as you progress in spiritual practice, a person begins to pass through the worlds very quickly, he seems to be racing faster. Gods keepers can be shown for a moment, but then disappear. This speed of progress on these worlds indicates the level of spiritual development of a person. This is because we do not need to waste time on what we have already experienced.
And a person can reach the summit of the causal world in a short time. So, you should not be captivated by the various faces and sounds with which you can meet during meditation. These are just landmarks on your path. And passing through them, you can reach the causal world.
FINAL RELEASE OF FOUR SINGLE PRESENTLY EXISTING CONSCIOUSNESS
Now let me explain the state of the highest Liberation, gained after attaining perfection in Causal yoga. Suppose you are here and can hear sounds or understand the state of the six worlds of the World of Passion. At the same time, you can understand the state of the World of Forms. And also you can understand the state of Mira without Forms. Moreover, you have a consciousness (the consciousness of the True Ego), observing these worlds from the side. And when in the person simultaneously exist these four worlds of consciousness, he becomes a buddha.
Samadhi does not mean to abandon the physical body and fly somewhere. The present Samadhi is a state in which a person finds the consciousness of the six worlds of the World of Passion, the consciousness of the World of Forms, the consciousness of the World Without Forms and the consciousness of the True Ego. This is the state of supreme emancipation. On the contrary, in a state where Tamas prevails, the consciousness of this physical body will be lost. Or the consciousness of the astral body or the consciousness of the causal body will be lost. Do you understand what is being said?
The fact is that you have to acquire all these types of consciousness. I will say it again. A person becomes a buddha, if in him there are at one time four worlds of consciousness. A person who has reached this stage can freely convert in the six worlds of the World of Passion, in the World of Forms or in the World Without Forms. He is also free to not transplant in any of these worlds, as he can reach the Mahayana.

[Nitiananda]

And the Sakyamuni Buddha reached final liberation without teachers. Selfishly. And such a great soul is called the Tathagata (the victor in Truth)

Originally Posted by Nitiananda

And the Sakyamuni Buddha reached final liberation without teachers. Selfishly. And such a great soul is called the Tathagata (the victor in Truth)

Selfishly?
The way I read the story he reached liberation. As he contemplated just sitting there in bliss it was a deva who came to him and told him that some people may be able to grasp what he found. That's when he went and started to teach..

Tathagata as I have learned is translated as suchness.
or one who understands it as it is..

No pointers towards victory over anything..

With Love
Eelco