how do i do it?

NWC,

You say this thread has gone way off topic.
How exactly?
If you analyze every post (not only mine) you will find that is NOT the case.

You say that Vajra did not want to be demeaned by her concerns, but I honestly don't see how ANYTHING anyone has post up to now could give you that idea.

Yes, BLAIR2BE is FOR meat eating, but I think he has kept himself very nicely when bringing out his point of view, don't you think?

As far as my post goes, if you read it carefully, you will discover it is NOT meant to demean her, but to make her REALIZE that she is on the RIGHT TRACK, with or without others' support.
It is to tickle her HEART which is already AWARE, my friend.

jeace...was i directing a comment to you? no.

did i highlight a response by a members comment here to whom i was expressing to? yes.

did i say everyone is demeaning her? no.

when one shares how they feel about something and asks questions SUPPORTING their concerns and to whom can identify ect.... who wants to hear they are all wrong and go off topic? especialy when one expresses love for animals. and it appeared to me to be a bit negative... as well as expressing strong opinions ect where in my opinion was not knowledgeable for the most part.

i'm not here to attack anyone nor to ever do so. if i offend someone then i'd like that person to tell me.

so perhaps you may need to re-read?

Don't forget that for almost ANY topic, there will be opposing views as well as supporting ones.

In this case however, although Vajra did make very clear that eating meat troubled her, she also tells about her difficulty in stopping with it (the first couple of lines of her post).

That's why I don't think that BLAIR2BE's 'advices' are off-topic AT ALL (not even the one you highlighted).
He is the opposing view in this topic, but I don't see how ANY of his posts would give Vajra a demeaning feeling.

Sometimes it is especially the opposing views that feed a topic so other questions, in this case intimately RELATED, can be answered from which the thread starter can profit.

Profit? How?

Well, like I said, judging by Vajra's post, there is some 'battle' in her head, not only about her wish to do what's right, but also a little dilemma about what exactly is 'right'.

Thus, opposing views can serve a great deal here, in bringing out that which is playing in her head.

By realizing that eating meat is not necessarily a 'sin'.

By realizing that 'spirituality' does not always lead to awareness, for there are MANY out there who praise themselves for their recognition of the 'divine' while they ignore the obvious details around them, only because they have NOT LEARNED to be AWARE.

The Divine is like a camera which can fit many lenses.

One lens can magnify some aspects of life or the universe, and another lens can help see the most minute details.

Vajra is trying to adjust her lens to see and FEEL those minute details, but it is not easy to do it when facing the contradictions posed by other (to her) competent minds who simply are CHOOSING, maybe unintentionally, to see through another lens with a more 'narrow' view.

All that rests for her now is is to TRUST HERSELF and TRY to rid her heart of the confusion blurring its 'sight'.
Vajra's heart is READY for the lens which will provide her more focus in life...A WIDER PICTURE OF AWARENESS.

NWC, please try not to feel attacked.
I am only trying to tell you that comforting (supporting ONE side only) a poster won't help as much as confronting him/her with his/her inner conflicts.

We are ALL FRIENDS here, trying to help eachother.

jeace... all you're doing is rambling and "butting" in on the comments i've made that has nothing to do with you...yet you keep replying and "speaking for others" to where they have not expressed anything to my comments...like you are their being or something.

you've been absolutely incorrect in trying to figure me out in various things and claiming me to be in your own head.

i'm no longer responding to your nonsence in this thread.

Please accept my apologies for upsetting you.

I did NOT mean to...Sorry, my friend.

i'm a vegetarian. have been for 17 years now. but nothing is black in white in life. i have stayed vege but my views and beliefs have changed and grown through this time.

i enjoy being a vege. it's a habit now. but i do respect people who eat meat. especially those who respect the meat they are eating. either by buying meat from an ethical source like free range or halal suppliers....or those who just accept and respect what they are eating.

i find it more strange when people go funny about eating a lamb they once met but have no qualms buying some lamb chops wrapped in plastic anonymously from a supermarket. both had lives once. it's nice to be aware of what you are eating....for all meat. i think a prayer of gratitude to the animal is lovely and respectful.

these are just my thoughts. every human is free to make their own choices about meat eating. well unless you are brought up in a strict vegan family....or in a vegetarian prison...oh those semantics!

Rose,

I understand your intention in staying polite, but...

Is eating meat nothing more than a "consumer's choice"?

And...will a prayer turn back the clock to relieve the animals from the abusive and traumatic experiences they are subjected to?

Yes, I say ABUSE, because just about every manufactured 'product' we put on our table is the result of UNEXCUSABLE ABUSE, UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED OTHERWISE.

Of course, most people don't even have idea, or simply DO NOT WANT TO HAVE IDEA, what the process of bringing that 'delicious' and 'needed product' to us REALLY involves.

Animals are NOT a lifeless object...
They are ALIVE, AS ALIVE AS YOU AND I.
They feel PAIN, JUST LIKE US.
They feel FEAR and ANGUISH, JUST LIKE US.

YES, every human is free to make their own choices, ANY CHOICES, in life...but I think we should know by now that humans are NOT yet capable or even willing to make the right choices, NOT for themselves, but FOR OTHERS and the world in general.

Humans still think that HURTING others is a matter of choice (= ABUSING THEIR FREE-WILL), and that's why the world is what it is in an era when we DARE to call ourselves 'CIVILIZED'?

i hear you jeace. i really do. but i find quietly educating people rather than preaching to them about mass meat production is more effective. plus not judging others but putting the options there for them to think for themselves. i've had to deal with defensive people all my teenage and adult life when they find out about my vegetarianism. i don't judge them. but they judge themselves around me and get silly. or they judge me. they tend to over emphasise how they love a good steak etc. to me it's their choice. hopefully they respect mine. sometimes they don't but it's their problem.

i just wanted to air my views which aren't extremist. i am who i am and i believe what i believe. it's good to be able to share. and it's good for you and others to share their views. it's good for us all to hear each other as long as we respect each other. that's all i ask.

if this sounds a bit cheesy to you but if you are looking to convert or have a fiery debate....go find a meat lover's website and stick a proverbial pitch fork up their bums for fun

just make sure you don't use any animal products when converting. you don't wear leather shoes do you or eat dairy? i've seen so many angry vegetarians shot down for this and rightly so.

sort of like "he who has not sinned, cast the first stone".

here's a thought way off the track. did you know how many products have palm sugar? so much native land around the world is cleared for the ever growing demand for plantations.

none of us can be perfect but we can all do a little. recycling and being aware of what we eat is a start. giving people a chance to do so of their own free will may be more effective in changing this planet around. my view. or maybe bashing them over the head with a club made of soy sausage works. who knows?

Hi Rose,

Of course educating people is THE ONLY WAY to solve just about ANY PROBLEM.

However, don't let my words, which may sound TOO imperative, make you believe I am some kind of agressive activitst who, as you put it yourself, is willing to go bashing everyone around with a soy sausage :)

When I talk about a subject (ANY subject), I stick to 2 thumb 'rules' ABOVE ALL.
Those two 'rules' are RESPECT for others (ANYONE and EVERYONE), and trying to put down what my heart dictates.

Thus, those 2 rules are the BASE for EVERY SINGLE WORD I manage to lay down.

However, it may happen (NO, IT OFTEN HAPPENS) that when I generalize by referring to the human race, those humans who fall in the 'field under fire', might take the words as a PERSONAL attack, which is NOT THE CASE, as ridiculous as it may sound.

When I say humans I am directing my thoughts to the GENERAL human reasoning, but NEVER, in any way possible, do I see ANYONE in front of me.

If we were to attack all those who lack the RESPECT for other living beings (including humans), then we would end up losing a lot of friends, as you probably agree with me.

Our ability to PERCEIVE a certain logic, based on what should be a NATURAL RESPECT for others, does NOT always represent the state of our heart.

And YES, there is no doubt that USING ANY animal product rests on the same fragile ground as EATING the product.

That's why the point I was trying to get accross is NOT the ACTION of eating meat, or using/wearing it, but rather the 'logic' on which OUR REASONING is based.

In other words, it is NOT WHAT HAPPENS to the physical vehicle of a living being that matters, but HOW IT HAPPENED BEFORE it was terminated.

A dead animal (or the soul behind it) does NOT care what happens to the physical remainings but the PAIN

Then, I repeat, the reason why I allow my words to close with an exclamation point, is because this is a SPIRITUAL forum.

A place where many come to share and FIND answers to certain 'dilemmas' they may have regarding the GROWTH of our 'psyche'...having as goal an AWAKENING OF AWARENESS and an ADJUSTMENT OF PERCEPTION.

It would be a different thing to place a banner, comprising my 'advices', in a site of the "butcher's association" or the "Hunters' Daisy Club".

It is a pitty to see how many people suddenly come with an 'urge' to 'reach enlightment' and try to define it so profoundly (albeit often only in a purely 'intellectually' phylosophical way) without REALIZING the importance of the MOST OBVIOUS DETAILS around them.

Thus, I emphasize my words so strongly because I DO have FAITH in those who show their interest in WAKING UP, and NOT because I want to attack them, if you know what I mean.

Our spirit grows NOT by our abilities to try to describe the 'undescribable' or to understand the universe, but by OPENING OUR HEART, and this last happens by UNDERSTANDING OTHERS (ANY CONSCIOUS BEING) at the ONLY LEVEL that really counts...THE HEART.


If we could SEE through the EYES of those in PAIN, we would NOT NEED TO SUFFER.

If we could SEE through the EYES of those who feel LONELINESS, we would NEVER FEEL ALONE.

If we could SEE through the EYES of those in FAMINE, we would NEVER SUFFER FROM HUNGER.

If we could SEE through the EYES of those who are COLD, we would NEVER LACK A ROOF OVER OUR HEAD.

If we could SEE though the EYES of those dominated by hate, we would NEVER LACK LOVE IN OUR HEARTS.

wouldn't it be great if our keyboards could underline the words we want to emphasise on this forum...or if italics could be used? use of capitals gets misunderstood often.

preaching ideas seems wrong. but being passionate about beliefs seems good. i do believe you are the latter.

have you ever tried soy sausages by the way? i challenge all meat eaters to give them a go. and see if they still taste good.

but then there's issues with soy...oh it's never ending

what did the activist say to Liberace? "do you know how many polyesters died to make that suit?"

*drum beat and cymbols*

please excuse me...all posts containing the word "sausage" will descend into silliness.