Spiritual Enlightenment - Why do you want it? What are you going to do with it?

[Rah nam]

Reaching enlightenment within this reality is a bit like trying to breath air wile being under water.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

it is easy to say not to be influenced by others, much harder to live it. No man is an island? Even those of us on islands, don't really live alone.

One of my earliest observations was, if you try to utilize methods used by others to get somewhere you also end up utilizing all their attitudes about what to do once there. So for example you couldn't rise through the political ranks and become a career politician, if you didn't learn to espouse the same values as the people who are currently there already have? At least it would be beyond most people to even want to try, let alone succeed at such an endeavor because of the loneliness involved.

Same goes for enlightenment. Or really any endeavor. If I followed other peoples ideas on how to get there I'd also pick up their attitudes about what to do once I am there???

If you were going to make a change at the end you would have to build the whole thing for yourself, from scratch. So that you would learn along the way not to think either the ideas of how to get there or the ideas of what to do once there were desirable just because others value them.

Noone wants to be that lonely though.

Well... my dear Falling...
I disagree.. there have always been those who have faced that loneliness and sacrifice to improve our ways.

There have always been those brave and independent thinkers throughout human history who had changed the course of our path... even when they were facing severe oppositions, ridicules, and/or persecutions.
Without them, our human race would've been in much worse place than we are now.

These enlightened souls touched all aspects of human lives... spirituality included.
It is important for us to remember them... those who walked lonely passage for the greater purpose...

I don't think that they considered it lonely since they carried the entire human race on their back as they walk the road not taken....

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Reaching enlightenment within this reality is a bit like trying to breath air wile being under water.

Hmm... don't we put ourselves under water, when we ignore that we need to breath air? It is our choice to be drown or swim back to the shore where we started.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Well... my dear Falling...
I disagree.. there have always been those who have faced that loneliness and sacrifice to improve our ways.

There have always been those brave and independent thinkers throughout human history who had changed the course of our path... even when they were facing severe oppositions, ridicules, and/or persecutions.
Without them, our human race would've been in much worse place than we are now.

These enlightened souls touched all aspects of human lives... spirituality included.
It is important for us to remember them... those who walked lonely passage for the greater purpose...

I don't think that they considered it lonely since they carried the entire human race on their back as they walk the road not taken....

it is nice of you to say something, but beyond such flowery words what do such people get in the end? More opposition, more ridicule, more persecution, and people also taking whatever they've gone to great trouble to find out of their hands. And then being sent off to yet another **** to fetch still more for others? Never any rest? Just to help others have all the things they will never themselves be allowed to see?

And even the so-called rewards for such behavior may be seen as more veiled punishments once enough time has gone by...

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

it is nice of you to say something, but beyond such flowery words what do such people get in the end? More opposition, more ridicule, more persecution, and people also taking whatever they've gone to great trouble to find out of their hands. And then being sent off to yet another **** to fetch still more for others? Never any rest? Just to help others have all the things they will never themselves be allowed to see?

And even the so-called rewards for such behavior may be seen as more veiled punishments once enough time has gone by...

Have you consider..
Perhaps theirs were selfless act w/o expectation for any self gratification or rewards... for their works??? because of their love for humanity?

Just as parents love and sacrifice for their children w/o expecting anything back from their children except for their children to be healthy, happy, and good people.

Maybe.. some of them believe in unconditional love

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

it is nice of you to say something, but beyond such flowery words what do such people get in the end? More opposition, more ridicule, more persecution, and people also taking whatever they've gone to great trouble to find out of their hands. And then being sent off to yet another **** to fetch still more for others? Never any rest? Just to help others have all the things they will never themselves be allowed to see?

And even the so-called rewards for such behavior may be seen as more veiled punishments once enough time has gone by...

Unfortunately, the universe plans it that way to test us.

Last week, I had an appointment to see a hypnotherapist, I had just started a new art class and my first lesson was the day after, I had a meeting with the board to discuss activities for Mental Health Week the same day, I had enrolled in a Yoga course which started the day after...etc. It was a very busy week for me and I was finally getting to do what I wanted...I was finally looking after myself and getting on top of my illness.

What happens? The day before my busy week starts, I get a phone call from my brother...my mother is gravely ill in hospital and he requires me to go and live at his place, in the country...out in the middle of nowhere for a week and look after things so he has time to go visit my mother (and take me with him sometimes)...so I had to drop everything...bye bye "my life".

It happened about a month ago as well...I had set goals, made plans for the week...trying to get on top of it...trying to get MY LIFE!!! and what happens? my sister in law's car breaks down and she needed to borrow mine for 4 days to get to work while her car is in the shop getting fixed.

I hate my life, because I am not allowed to have one, because demonic powers always sabotage anything I ever want to do by attacking those close to me...and I don't know what to do about this...talk about having the "worst timing" and so I live with bitterness, hatred and resentment because I would much rather be very inconsiderate and selfish and say "I have enough problems of my own and don't need yours, sorry" and also lie and make up excuses just so I can LIVE and do enjoyable things...you know, just like everybody else does....

...and so, I have increased my dosage of antidepressants now and I am on two different types...just so I don't do anything "stupid" in order to teach the universe a lesson that it cannot f*** with me anymore.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Hmm... don't we put ourselves under water, when we ignore that we need to breath air? It is our choice to be drown or swim back to the shore where we started.

My point was, wait until you make it out of this reality, and you will be enlightened if you so choose.

And there are very simple steps to make it out of this reality.
dispassion
compassion
humility


no action needed

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Unfortunately, the universe plans it that way to test us.

Last week, I had an appointment to see a hypnotherapist, I had just started a new art class and my first lesson was the day after, I had a meeting with the board to discuss activities for Mental Health Week the same day, I had enrolled in a Yoga course which started the day after...etc. It was a very busy week for me and I was finally getting to do what I wanted...I was finally looking after myself and getting on top of my illness.

What happens? The day before my busy week starts, I get a phone call from my brother...my mother is gravely ill in hospital and he requires me to go and live at his place, in the country...out in the middle of nowhere for a week and look after things so he has time to go visit my mother (and take me with him sometimes)...so I had to drop everything...bye bye "my life".

It happened about a month ago as well...I had set goals, made plans for the week...trying to get on top of it...trying to get MY LIFE!!! and what happens? my sister in law's car breaks down and she needed to borrow mine for 4 days to get to work while her car is in the shop getting fixed.

I hate my life, because I am not allowed to have one, because demonic powers always sabotage anything I ever want to do by attacking those close to me...and I don't know what to do about this...talk about having the "worst timing" and so I live with bitterness, hatred and resentment because I would much rather be very inconsiderate and selfish and say "I have enough problems of my own and don't need yours, sorry" and also lie and make up excuses just so I can LIVE and do enjoyable things...you know, just like everybody else does....

...and so, I have increased my dosage of antidepressants now and I am on two different types...just so I don't do anything "stupid" in order to teach the universe a lesson that it cannot f*** with me anymore.

Yoga, Art classes, Hypnotherapy sessions....

Hmm...
Shivani.. You are one of the fortunate people on this earth who have achieved the top layer of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
In fact, all of us here on this forum are those who probably reached that top level of needs.

In reality, 1 in 9 people on this earth still goes bed hungry.
49% of the world population still does not have internet access.
Some will never make a phone call during their life time.

So, maybe helping those souls closed to you may be your purpose in this life. Our souls make promises to help each other.
But Shivani, you are blessed to have those families around you. Some of us do not even have that...
At the end of your journey, you will not remember yoga, art classes, or etc.. But you will remember the love shared with those around you.
It is blessing that your family is able to rely on you. It can easily be the other way around.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

My point was, wait until you make it out of this reality, and you will be enlightened if you so choose.

And there are very simple steps to make it out of this reality.
dispassion
compassion
humility


no action needed

Point taken. But I still believe.. Action from the enlightenment is needed for the true purpose of this journey.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

Yoga, Art classes, Hypnotherapy sessions....

Hmm...
Shivani.. You are one of the fortunate people on this earth who have achieved the top layer of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
In fact, all of us here on this forum are those who probably reached that top level of needs.

In reality, 1 in 9 people on this earth still goes bed hungry.
49% of the world population still does not have internet access.
Some will never make a phone call during their life time.

So, maybe helping those souls closed to you may be your purpose in this life. Our souls make promises to help each other.
But Shivani, you are blessed to have those families around you. Some of us do not even have that...
At the end of your journey, you will not remember yoga, art classes, or etc.. But you will remember the love shared with those around you.
It is blessing that your family is able to rely on you. It can easily be the other way around.

I have often asked the universe why? and it seems, that I must express deep and severe gratitude every time I make a phone call...every time I eat a piece of fruit...every time I get a green traffic light being thankful for the fact I can drive....every time I take a drink of water, have a bath...every time I get to do something that many others just take for granted...irrespective of the fact that half the world doesn't have that luxury...but I don't know how to be grateful for those simple things that I GET to do, like being grateful my internet still works...being grateful I can still manage to walk and talk...being grateful that I have a bed to sleep in...it kind of borders on the sublimely ridiculous to me, when the only affirmations I make are totally pre-emptive.

What must I have to do in order to have those goals I set for myself go totally unchallenged? That is the only answer I want.

I realise that John Lennon once said "life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"...so why oh why is there so much emphasis on 'goal setting' and 'planning ahead' when none of that works for me anyway? The only time I get to do anything I want is on the total spur of the moment, without giving it any thought whatsoever...so that the universe doesn't have the time to set up scenarios and games to block me from doing it.

You know, even though I do those things, it is only out of DUTY...nothing more or less...but where is the duty to myself? It seems the more I want to do something very easy, the more I have to suffer to do it!...if I want to attend a yoga class, I must walk 10kms there and back first or else I am not 'worthy' to do it...because the universe will remove every way I have of getting there until I will be crawling on the road to attend.

It is a curse, my friend...nothing more, nothing less and I am over it.