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03-09-2018, 09:18 AM
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Guide
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelyen
As for truth, isn't that unique to us individually, pretty fluid?
Even getting to Self is elusive. One thinks one's arrived yet something prompts them to realise they haven't...not quite.
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Well, why can't people find a middle ground? Some truths last forever, and some are fluid. Some truths are objective like math and some are subjective like art. There are all kinds of truths, and yet people all act as if there is only one kind of narrow and right type of truth.
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05-09-2018, 10:55 AM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
There's a channeled book that's similar to ACIM, called Steps to Knowledge, that has a year long workbook like ACIM does. Actually it's ONLY a workbook, there's no 'text' like in ACIM.
Anyway, one of the lessons is, 'I believe what I want to believe.' This echoes ACIM's lesson, 'I see all things as I would have them be.'
Basically, these books are saying that we all 'see what we want to see,' we believe what we want to believe.
Then how can we ever see the TRUTH?
It's simple. In order to see the truth, YOU HAVE TO WANT TO.
Your desire to know the truth has to be stronger than your desire to believe what suits your ego, your hopes, your pride, or fear.
J. Krishnamurti taught that we have to be aware of our tendency to distort truth, to project, to deceive ourselves. He called this, 'the awakening of intelligence.'
If we can be deeply aware of our tendency to 'see what we want to see,' we can become truly OBJECTIVE, and find a willingness to acknowledge truth and reality.
But we do need to recognize our tendency to deceive ourselves.
The philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein said, 'The easiest thing in the world to do is deceive yourself.'
Beware of self-deception!
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Who is another to say we are 'deceiving ourselves' when they are not fully aware of our personal truth, only their own?
If we are all cognizant of our own reality, then either everybody is 'deceiving themselves' or else nobody is.
Many will say (and do) that I am under the influence of Satan, or being possessed by demons, as if to illicit a distasteful or guilty 'fear response' from me, but all of that does not form part of my own belief system...so all I can say is "wow, that's awesome! thanks for letting me know".
I came to the realisation early on that 'spiritual/religious hawkers' apply the same human tactics as a used car salesman or door to door Amway salesperson would...in that whatever you are currently doing or product you are using is totally inferior, because they have nothing to personally gain if you decide to continue that practice and then 'self-deception' is used to undermine personal faith and confidence...problem is that many cannot see through this ruse and take it personally and seriously...it is how cultists recruit.
So all you can say is "thanks, but I am totally happy deceiving myself...goodbye" and they go on about Hell and all of that. I can only laugh. Yes, I am proud, but if I were not, I would not be honest with myself and I love myself for who I am, even if others don't...but that is their issue, not mine.
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05-09-2018, 08:36 PM
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Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,619
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Satyan nasti paro dharmah
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05-09-2018, 08:40 PM
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Master
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature Grows
Satyan nasti paro dharmah
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Very nice! You are learning.
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05-09-2018, 08:46 PM
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Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Very nice! You are learning.
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lol....
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06-09-2018, 09:47 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A
Posts: 3,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy soul
That's really awesome, thanks for sharing it.
I was thinking about something like that (well, not like it, pretty much the exact same thing) recently. It's from Ken Keyes book, The Handbook to Higher Consciousness (which probably many of you are familiar with). One of the 'twelve pathways' is something like, 'I recognize how my emotion backed addictions influences my illusory version of the changing world of people and situations around me.'
He's basically saying the same thing you're saying. That when we have attachments, our 'version of things' will be influenced by that, and therefore not truly objective.
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From The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.7, speaking to the same 'issue', I think :)
"They in whom wisdom is obscured by one desire or the other, worship the lesser Powers, practising many rites which vary according to their temperaments.
But whatever the form of worship, if the devotee have faith, then upon his faith in that worship do I set My own seal.
If he worships one form alone with real faith, then shall his desires be fulfilled through that only; for thus have I ordained.
The fruit that comes to men of limited insight is, after all, finite. They who worship the Lower Powers attain them; but those who worship Me come unto Me alone."
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07-09-2018, 05:23 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 418
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Greenslade, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think you have a good point.
Shivani Devi, I agree. And in the end, truth is truth. As Tupac Shakur said, 'Only God can judge me.' And surely God sees us as we are. That's a wonderful thing.
Davidsun, nice quote from the Gita. Probably most people, definitely including me, have frequently allowed their own desires to obscure wisdom. Tbh I've made unwise choices because of my own petty desires more times than I can count. And I'm very glad you shared that quote because it's a lesson I need to learn. When a desire is unwise or unloving, we shouldn't act on it merely because we want to. It reminds me of that book, 'Everything I Needed to Know I Learned In Kindergarten'. Don't do things just because you want to! Choose love. It sounds obvious and is very simple, but not as easy to practice.
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07-09-2018, 05:23 AM
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Experiencer
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 418
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double post
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