Why would God care so about murder if He knows there is no death?

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)


Yes I agree no-one here on the forums is speaking in absolutes, I am speaking generally regarding those who teach this premise regarding the dream and make it out to be a matter of fact .

The reality as such which is their foundation for everything else said thereafter .

I think at times peeps don't understand that their foundation has a knock on effect to their whole belief system and it should reflect how they behave as a second nature .

This is where you see if one lives in accordance to their understandings of reality .

I wonder how peeps would behave if they believed without a doubt that this reality lived was dream based ..

Would peeps get irritated for instance by other's who are only dream characters?

Would they see themselves as a dream character only and that their master or their wife or kids were just dreamed up?

Could you really love something that was dreamy? Is the love expressed, dream love?

There are so many questions regarding the belief had and the consequences of that belief thereafter




x daz x

Hey there,:)

What you ask in terms to how one perceives life to be, whether a dream or not, may depend upon how one understand what dream like is referring to. Perhaps a metaphor indicating how this physical life is a creation of sorts?

Now I get a bit where you are coming from. That the term dream/illusion may dismiss the experience and reality of life here. If taken that way.

Saying life is a dream may not be intended that it is a fact. More like how it feels. A feeling of being a part of the creative process. We create a lot in the mind. Some is pure fantasy, IMO, some insights and figuring out how to deal with things.

Have I met someone "dreamy"? Sure, Had an image in my mind of what I thought him/her to be. Then got to know them and found what I thought was not the way he/she is. So perhaps in regards to how, at times, things are thought to be are not that way at all. Other times they are in some ways, but upon experiencing it find is much more then thought.

Now I am not attempting to advocate for or against whether Life is dream or not.

Just expressing in my way what it may be referring to in some ways. Looking at it this way can see at times what is thought to be is not always the way it is being in its fullness.

Yes, what one believes has it affects upon how life is viewed. Much like what is proposed in the OP may depend upon how one views feels God to be or not.

I can not say how another may view life unless he/she tells me or share thier views.

[The Eternal Soul]

Originally Posted by meetjazz

Personally, I do not believe that our lifes are such '' innocent games,'' as it is to hear in some beliefs. This is probably the key kernel as well how we look life itself. It's all just a game, nothing serious...and if so...why should we then even direct ourselves to the highest ideals? Why bother with morals..? From my belief or point of view, life is not just a meaningless illusion, from my point of view, we are beings in the process of evolution. I mean, we don't think today the same way as we had think when we was 10 years old, and our dreams, desires, wishes..are today completely different as they was when we was 15 years old. Personally, I don't believe that we are GOD, personally i look at it also from the field of reincarnation research as well, where we know for example, that people who had died in their previous life in a violent or tragic way, they can bring birthmarks even into this life, their bodies can have marks - for example of gunshot wounds which mark their previous life tragedies and so on. So if we take reincarnation research seriously or as authentic way that gives us insight into the ''afterlife,...'' then our lives are definitely not meaningless illusions, and our pains, tragedies, joy and happiness,..all our experiences combine play a key role in our further life travels,decisions...

Very well stated!

Nice to see others have it figured out.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)


Yes I agree no-one here on the forums is speaking in absolutes, I am speaking generally regarding those who teach this premise regarding the dream and make it out to be a matter of fact .

The reality as such which is their foundation for everything else said thereafter .

I think at times peeps don't understand that their foundation has a knock on effect to their whole belief system and it should reflect how they behave as a second nature .

This is where you see if one lives in accordance to their understandings of reality .

I wonder how peeps would behave if they believed without a doubt that this reality lived was dream based ..

Would peeps get irritated for instance by other's who are only dream characters?

Would they see themselves as a dream character only and that their master or their wife or kids were just dreamed up?

Could you really love something that was dreamy? Is the love expressed, dream love?

There are so many questions regarding the belief had and the consequences of that belief thereafter




x daz x

You have eloquently identified many of the points which caused the great Indian sage, Ramana Maharshi, to state that one should NOT practice advaita (non-duality) in their interactions with others.

Shakespeare described it differently when he wrote:

"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

As I've mentioned before, the Tibetan sage Milarepa realized that whatever he could do in a lucid dream was also possible in the so-called waking state AFTER, of course, one has fully purified one's self.

What is your understanding of individuality and the nature of the Reality?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hey there,:)

What you ask in terms to how one perceives life to be, whether a dream or not, may depend upon how one understand what dream like is referring to. Perhaps a metaphor indicating how this physical life is a creation of sorts?

Now I get a bit where you are coming from. That the term dream/illusion may dismiss the experience and reality of life here. If taken that way.

Saying life is a dream may not be intended that it is a fact. More like how it feels. A feeling of being a part of the creative process. We create a lot in the mind. Some is pure fantasy, IMO, some insights and figuring out how to deal with things.

Have I met someone "dreamy"? Sure, Had an image in my mind of what I thought him/her to be. Then got to know them and found what I thought was not the way he/she is. So perhaps in regards to how, at times, things are thought to be are not that way at all. Other times they are in some ways, but upon experiencing it find is much more then thought.

Now I am not attempting to advocate for or against whether Life is dream or not.

Just expressing in my way what it may be referring to in some ways. Looking at it this way can see at times what is thought to be is not always the way it is being in its fullness.

Yes, what one believes has it affects upon how life is viewed. Much like what is proposed in the OP may depend upon how one views feels God to be or not.

I can not say how another may view life unless he/she tells me or share thier views.

Hey :)

Yep absolutely and this is why context is key and this is why comparisons are key also . I would say it is common for some to see the world as a dream based upon the impermanence of the life experience had for starters and the fact that the same appearance / persona isn't present in each incarnation.

So in this instance what would be the permanent experience had and the permanent appearance attained? There isn't a self reference for these comparison, so again all there is, is a speculative thought based upon a conclusion that doesn't hold any weight .

Wishy washy reflections had of self in these instances and along with realizations had beyond the mind-body just adds more fuel to the illusory fire lol ..

I think by what you said in that you are not attempting to advocate for or against whether Life is dream or not because you simply get on with life as you see it .

You see a cartoon and you know that the reality of that has a comparison to the waking world and the waking world is different to when you have a dream at night and I would say the majority of peeps life life by these comparisons had otherwise one wouldn't make sense of their reality and act accordingly ..

This is also why peeps that have an unstable sense of their current reality think that they can fly off a cliffs edge by simply flapping their arms ..

There is a reason for life to be as it is in each dimension and this is why the differences between a cartoon character, a dream character and a family member of the physical world needs to be noted otherwise madness would reign ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You have eloquently identified many of the points which caused the great Indian sage, Ramana Maharshi, to state that one should NOT practice advaita (non-duality) in their interactions with others.

Shakespeare described it differently when he wrote:

"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

As I've mentioned before, the Tibetan sage Milarepa realized that whatever he could do in a lucid dream was also possible in the so-called waking state AFTER, of course, one has fully purified one's self.

What is your understanding of individuality and the nature of the Reality?

Hey :)

I hear often peeps speak along the lines of just being likened to actors on stage just like shakespeare has said and it is true enough to say that we entertain a different guise / persona each incarnation but when we speak of actors as a comparison here the actors know they are actors and they then return to their true self when the performance is over ..

So when Errol Flynn takes off his Robin Hood costume he goes back to being Errol doesn't he ..

When Errol stops being Errol is when exactly?

This is exactly why the dream metaphor has weaknesses because their is no comparison lived in the dream.

When we speak along these lines regarding being the actors and actresses of life there is already a stigma attached to it not being real based upon there being an actual real person behind the character ..

So if there was not a real peep behind the character there wouldn't be the comparison, now all the spiritual teachers can come up with is the real self reflects pure awareness or pure consciousness which really doesn't help, it's like pointing to beyond self and mind from a position of self and mind . (It's kinda counterproductive)

In regards to individuality there is nothing more or less of what you are manifest or unmanifest so there fundamentally isn't anything that what you are isn't even if it is in a temporary form / appearance of an elephant.

Peeps then try and prise apart the appearance of an elephant from what you are that experiences being an elephant and it's inevitable at times that there will be this sense of divide and separation had based upon this experience ..

The reality as I see it is that it is possible for God or Self to be in experience of an individual elephant without being an illusory elephant or an actor just acting out being one .. solely based upon it's form / appearance and the impermanence of it all .

There really has to be in my eyes a foundation right from the very start had in regards to what you are, what you have realized to that effect .

What peeps can end up entertaining is a dream character with no real foundation had believing that they are an actor without knowing what is behind the appearance ..

Who said anyone is acting at all? Why can't there just be genuine individuals experiencing life truly as they are and as they see it .

To be an actor one must know they are acting and this means they are not being true to themselves or other's .


x dazzle x

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

Yep absolutely and this is why context is key and this is why comparisons are key also . I would say it is common for some to see the world as a dream based upon the impermanence of the life experience had for starters and the fact that the same appearance / persona isn't present in each incarnation.

So in this instance what would be the permanent experience had and the permanent appearance attained? There isn't a self reference for these comparison, so again all there is, is a speculative thought based upon a conclusion that doesn't hold any weight .

Wishy washy reflections had of self in these instances and along with realizations had beyond the mind-body just adds more fuel to the illusory fire lol ..

I think by what you said in that you are not attempting to advocate for or against whether Life is dream or not because you simply get on with life as you see it .

You see a cartoon and you know that the reality of that has a comparison to the waking world and the waking world is different to when you have a dream at night and I would say the majority of peeps life life by these comparisons had otherwise one wouldn't make sense of their reality and act accordingly ..

This is also why peeps that have an unstable sense of their current reality think that they can fly off a cliffs edge by simply flapping their arms ..

There is a reason for life to be as it is in each dimension and this is why the differences between a cartoon character, a dream character and a family member of the physical world needs to be noted otherwise madness would reign ..


x daz x

Hi God-Like,

Yes, important to have a grip on reality. What I experience in this life and the people I come across are real in this life.

Some thoughts pop into my head to further explore.

When you present comparisons another way to look at are associations. Which feel is done naturally, if one is mentally able. If one is in a state of mind of disassociation, then would think may be difficult to distiguish one from the other or relate. Which would think would distort ones sense of reality.

But, disassociation is different from detatchment. Which I suggest is what such things as "illusion", "dream" may be alluding to. One is not attatched to the emotions and whatever may arise and be observed. Meaning, these are allowed to come and go.

This physical state is temporary, but that which gives life, call it soul/spirit/energy continues. Just after this life is done the essence of us continues. Atleast, what I can make out at this time.

So, instead of holding onto what comes to pass and fretting about what may be, there is focus upon what is being and this is all that is happening. The interesting part is it all blends together and creates lifes experience. As I understand at present.

Forms into our consciousness. What has passed, what is, what can be. Doesn't life reflect these?


Yes, can agree and good to point out to keep things in perspective. Detatchment to not become disassociation and not caring. More as I see it knowing when to step in and when to step away. To realize all things come to pass and may transform into something new or back to being part of the Whole.

Just expanding upon the discussion and what may be referred to a bit.

You do bring up some good points and considerations.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

I hear often peeps speak along the lines of just being likened to actors on stage just like shakespeare has said and it is true enough to say that we entertain a different guise / persona each incarnation but when we speak of actors as a comparison here the actors know they are actors and they then return to their true self when the performance is over ..

So when Errol Flynn takes off his Robin Hood costume he goes back to being Errol doesn't he ..

When Errol stops being Errol is when exactly?

This is exactly why the dream metaphor has weaknesses because their is no comparison lived in the dream.

When we speak along these lines regarding being the actors and actresses of life there is already a stigma attached to it not being real based upon there being an actual real person behind the character ..

So if there was not a real peep behind the character there wouldn't be the comparison, now all the spiritual teachers can come up with is the real self reflects pure awareness or pure consciousness which really doesn't help, it's like pointing to beyond self and mind from a position of self and mind . (It's kinda counterproductive)

In regards to individuality there is nothing more or less of what you are manifest or unmanifest so there fundamentally isn't anything that what you are isn't even if it is in a temporary form / appearance of an elephant.

Peeps then try and prise apart the appearance of an elephant from what you are that experiences being an elephant and it's inevitable at times that there will be this sense of divide and separation had based upon this experience ..

The reality as I see it is that it is possible for God or Self to be in experience of an individual elephant without being an illusory elephant or an actor just acting out being one .. solely based upon it's form / appearance and the impermanence of it all .

There really has to be in my eyes a foundation right from the very start had in regards to what you are, what you have realized to that effect .

What peeps can end up entertaining is a dream character with no real foundation had believing that they are an actor without knowing what is behind the appearance ..

Who said anyone is acting at all? Why can't there just be genuine individuals experiencing life truly as they are and as they see it .

To be an actor one must know they are acting and this means they are not being true to themselves or other's .


x dazzle x

Does your logic take into consideration what takes place in a dream where you yourself are essentially every character in the dream and yet there are obvious entanglements and occasional nightmares? Explain how you manage to do that and one gets a better sense of the nature of the Reality.

As the wise Greek adage goes, Know Yourself !

[running]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Just wondered your thoughts.
If this is a dream, and Illusion - there is no death ever - why would God
care if someone killed another?
Wouldn't He know that they come back again and again?

I'm coming to Gen Beliefs more and more.

its not god that cares. its the feeling of missing out, pain if there is any, and fear of death of the individual. which then plays out in the emotional body.

we would need to identify what is god to compose an idea. im identifying such as bliss and silence.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi God-Like,

Yes, important to have a grip on reality. What I experience in this life and the people I come across are real in this life.

Some thoughts pop into my head to further explore.

When you present comparisons another way to look at are associations. Which feel is done naturally, if one is mentally able. If one is in a state of mind of disassociation, then would think may be difficult to distiguish one from the other or relate. Which would think would distort ones sense of reality.

But, disassociation is different from detatchment. Which I suggest is what such things as "illusion", "dream" may be alluding to. One is not attatched to the emotions and whatever may arise and be observed. Meaning, these are allowed to come and go.

This physical state is temporary, but that which gives life, call it soul/spirit/energy continues. Just after this life is done the essence of us continues. Atleast, what I can make out at this time.

So, instead of holding onto what comes to pass and fretting about what may be, there is focus upon what is being and this is all that is happening. The interesting part is it all blends together and creates lifes experience. As I understand at present.

Forms into our consciousness. What has passed, what is, what can be. Doesn't life reflect these?


Yes, can agree and good to point out to keep things in perspective. Detatchment to not become disassociation and not caring. More as I see it knowing when to step in and when to step away. To realize all things come to pass and may transform into something new or back to being part of the Whole.

Just expanding upon the discussion and what may be referred to a bit.

You do bring up some good points and considerations.

Hey :)

Absolutely for reality has a way of biting you hard if you believe in something that isn't constituting a true reflection of it . This is why it doesn't matter what philosophy anyone holds to be true, for the reality itself will always prevail.

What seems to happen as I see it, peeps experience other realities and they try and fit it into what is present and it doesn't work in many instances that is why you get peeps saying they are not here amongst other things .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Does your logic take into consideration what takes place in a dream where you yourself are essentially every character in the dream and yet there are obvious entanglements and occasional nightmares? Explain how you manage to do that and one gets a better sense of the nature of the Reality.

As the wise Greek adage goes, Know Yourself !

I can buy into that in an ordinary dream I am creating everything that appears and whatever manifests and plays out will be a reflection of my own thoughts or conscious / subconscious ideas, fears, beliefs etc etc ..

I don't buy into that is what is happening equally on the earth plane / waking world .

I haven't conjured you or moonglow up from the depths of my subconscious nor have I magically pulled you both out of a hat lol .

This is what happens when peeps try and compare the night time dream with the waking world for there comes a time where the differences are just too great ..

The earth plane facilitates individuality and although fundamentally we are all cut from the same cloth we are not as individuals creators of individuals .

I listened to a bit of a channel/conduit last night speaking about oneness and seeing everything as herself and she gave this wonderful speech of unity and no separation etc, but it was only months prior to that she was on youtube upset at all the hurtful comments that came her way so where is the unity here and where is the oneness and only seeing herself in all things?

Does this mean that in essence she is upsetting herself and she is saying horrible things to herself? I say no not at all . This is the thing about unity consciousness and collective consciousness for some they try and wrap it all up into that but it never works because their individuality shines through always.

Just because we are all cut from the same cloth doesn't mean that our individuality isn't as real as it is day .. This is why you can have both realized masters and unrealized seekers experiencing life simultaneously and it would be incorrect from this perspective to suggest that either were creating the appearance of each other ..

I would say the creation of individual souls happens but an individual soul at this point is not creating the universe .

This is something that goes a little astray at times when peeps say they create their own reality in ways of creating the appearance of the moon by the act of perceiving it into being. i.e the moon isn't there when you are not perceiving it .


x dazzle x