Can we apply this in our lives?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Since the insights on this thread are so illuminating, I want to raise a somewhat related issue. In the Ramayana, I was always disturbed by the fact that Ram sent Sita away to the forest despite her being totally pure of any involvement with Ravana. (She had even gone successfully through the trial by fire.) I have an acquaintance, a Vedanta scholar, with whom I discussed this subject. According to him, Ram abided by the rules of society for a king when he did this but, when he returned as Krishna, he cleverly found ways to bend the rules. I'd be curious to hear the comments of the illustrious ones here on this subject as well.

His what my acquaintance had to say on this subject. It makes sense, but it still doesn't completely satisfy me. Somehow, I think that Krishna might have acted differently.

"Ram did not send Sita away. It was his role as a king and his strong adherence to rules that did. He enforced rules down peoples' throat because he thought that that was the right thing to do. That was what his forefathers did. He also saw how they suffered when they let emotions got into their ways.

Ram suffered tremendously to send Sita to the forest. But, as a leader, if your actions disturb your people then you have to choose your people. The laundry-guy that caused this conflict was adamant and Ram had trouble retorting simply because it was Ram against him and not just two mere citizens.

The whole message demonstrates that we cannot forget that rules and logics are just man-made constructs placed for a higher cause. Often people forget this, not because it is their faults but, because of the culture that they are involuntarily born into and expect to carry on without deeper understanding. Majority of people are ok with following. It is just a few that question the status quo. Eventually, when things got so out of hand, that same Ram came as Krishna and showed us ways to bend the rules.

This is the reason people love Krishna so much: he cleverly shows how to live by rules and at the same time bend those rules or even break them."

Rama sent Sita away according to the dharma of a king. He is right.

The most obvious way for me that Krishna 'bent the rules' was in the battle between Duryodhana and Bhima.

Because Draupadi said "your penis shall be your downfall" - or something like it to Duryodhana, Krishna ordered Bhima to strike him there.

Now, striking a guy 'down there' goes against every rule of Hindu warfare and everybody...I mean everybody was pretty disgusted with it at the time.

This gave a misguided king (Duryodhana) almost cult celebrity status and he was wheeled around the battlefield on the back of a chariot to talk to the soldiers until he died a few days later.

Some of those talks were very enlightening, as well as his final discourse with Lord Yama.

If I had anything 'against Krishna' it would be putting a self-fulfilling prophecy into play by breaking the rules of war to do it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Rama sent Sita away according to the dharma of a king. He is right.

The most obvious way for me that Krishna 'bent the rules' was in the battle between Duryodhana and Bhima.

Because Draupadi said "your penis shall be your downfall" - or something like it to Duryodhana, Krishna ordered Bhima to strike him there.

Now, striking a guy 'down there' goes against every rule of Hindu warfare and everybody...I mean everybody was pretty disgusted with it at the time.

This gave a misguided king (Duryodhana) almost cult celebrity status and he was wheeled around the battlefield on the back of a chariot to talk to the soldiers until he died a few days later.

Some of those talks were very enlightening, as well as his final discourse with Lord Yama.

If I had anything 'against Krishna' it would be putting a self-fulfilling prophecy into play by breaking the rules of war to do it.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Like yourself, most supporters of Ram's act of sending away Sita do indeed claim that it was the right dharma for a king. Nonetheless, it still troubles me.

I too recall that incident in the life of Krishna, where Krishna advised Bhima to strike at the groin, the only area that Ghandhari had not rendered invulnerable with her celestial vision. (Once again, Krishna was involved.) I don't recall the word "penis" being explicitly used.

I also recall when Krishna had Yudisthira, a man of truth, essentially "lie" about Ashwathama (the elephant, not the man) being dead. He thus acted in the best interests of all but he did "bend the rules" a bit there too.

In any case, thanks for your input on Ram. It's still the only incident I can recall with Ram that still troubles me. It seems as if he could have handled it differently (though I don't have any brilliant suggestions in this moment).

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Like yourself, most supporters of Ram's act of sending away Sita do indeed claim that it was the right dharma for a king. Nonetheless, it still troubles me.

I too recall that incident in the life of Krishna, where Krishna advised Bhima to strike at the groin, the only area that Ghandhari had not rendered invulnerable with her celestial vision. (Once again, Krishna was involved.) I don't recall the word "penis" being explicitly used.

I also recall when Krishna had Yudisthira, a man of truth, essentially "lie" about Ashwathama (the elephant, not the man) being dead. He thus acted in the best interests of all but he did "bend the rules" a bit there too.

In any case, thanks for your input on Ram. It's still the only incident I can recall with Ram that still troubles me. It seems as if he could have handled it differently (though I don't have any brilliant suggestions in this moment).

IIRC, The word was 'lap' so, whatever part of the male anatomy a 'lap' is, but yeah, anywhere in the vicinity from the navel to the knee without really being specific...I just felt that people were saying 'groin' to be politically correct over saying even any word relating to any form of the male anatomy, so I took a liberty, which I said it was at the time. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

IIRC, The word was 'lap' so, whatever part of the male anatomy a 'lap' is, but yeah, anywhere in the vicinity from the navel to the knee without really being specific...I just felt that people were saying 'groin' to be politically correct over saying even any word relating to any form of the male anatomy, so I took a liberty, which I said it was at the time. lol

Aum Namah Shivaya

Political correctness does indeed rear its head though Zen Masters tend to consistently be the least politically correct of all the traditions. LOL This, however, is Hinduism, which is normally quite proper.

My own spiritual mentor, who was proclaimed the Maha Acharya (Great Exemplar) of India at one of the Khumba Melas, was very direct but also very appropriate. On the other hand, I'm not always so politically correct (once I get to know some one). LOL

Om Namah Shivaya.

[kralaro]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Prayer is all about opening up the heart, opening it way up and just surrendering whatever there is of 'self' fully into it.

When the heart is open, this tends to happen anyway and prayer should be an expression of love rather than "I need this answer" or "I need your help" or "please talk to me". Krishna knows all those things already, so give Him something he wasn't expecting, say "I love You" and mean it.

Say "I love you" to God the same way as you would to your beloved, or to your child, or to whomever you feel a deep connection with here on earth.

This may be difficult for you, but find a nice picture of Krishna...one you really like the look/feel of and just gaze at it. Light a candle in front of it in a darkened room and while the picture has your attention, go "You are my everything and my heart is all yours. I may not tell you as often as I should because I presumed you knew it...but I love you so deeply....so much and I am nothing without you and your guidance and wisdom..."

I mean, really go into this and allow yourself to feel it...allow it to touch your heart...allow Krishna to reach there and not just be a 'God' but your true friend, your lover, your life and inspiration (coming from the word inspire-to breathe in). This is prayer.

Allow your Ishta Dewata to be the reason why it is your Ishta Dewata and keep going back to that meaning.

Eventually you'll notice things happening and answers to your prayers and even though they may have not been the answers you wanted or anticipated, you'll see them as answers anyway.

All the best.

Ma'm thanks for the care and also for the "All the best"

I think:

What you said i may not exactly follow that cause its different from my current personality. Recently i've been listening to love/romance songs while starting at picture of Krishna. I don't know how frequently and till when i'll continue doing this.