HOW to PLAN SCIENTIFICALLY OUR SPIRITUAL LIFE to ATTAIN GODHOOD in 108 YEARS

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by shankara

I had exactly the same thought. I think that there is a kind of hell realm where ego is dissolved to allow the essence to return and make further human incarnations. After, funnily enough, 108 lives, which is apparently the secret meaning of the mala. But this hell isn't a permanent state.

This is not 108 lives. It is 108 years. This is the half karmic period when one can workout about 88% of Karma on earth and the remaining 12% could be worked out in Tapa, Jana, Mehar loka.

[NoOne]

Shakti has the capacity to burn away Karma in a much shorter time than a 108 years, if you let her. I do not believe that it has to be this complicated. This is also a time period when it is much easier to transform and transmute Karmic debt, one can progress spiritually incredibly fast since about 2012. There really is a planetary spiritual transformation taking place. It may even be that the Kali Yuga has already ended and a new Golden age is being born.

The vast time periods given in various Hindu scriptures for the various Yugas are probably greatly exaggerated, they make no sense from a scientific or astronomical viewpoint.

[Dargor]

So I am going to be annihilated because I have no desire to be pure and perfect? This seems familiar...

[Altair]

The main issue as I see it with OPVerma's comments is that there is still that innate desire to place order upon the universe and human life, as if it's all understandable through numbers of life times and one species alone. Hinduism is obsessed with numbers and order, and like so many other religions, like Buddhism, Christianity, etc. it is inherently negative towards this world and seeks to escape it. The world is seen first as a curse, not a blessing. The only 'blessing' lies in one's god given capacity to escape it..

All other non-human species are supposedly only existing so they can eventually become human beings, so what they are is just fodder and filler really. The splendour of the natural world is reduced to its usefulness to human beings, but now spiritually. Then when they are all human, finally (the lucky lot of them can now talk and read scripture....), they are only supposed to live 'spiritually' and get enlightenment as fast as possible, because, well, ''the worldly things are bad'' and ''we need to escape it!''...

This entire belief system is rarely criticized yet all this talk about Enlightenment penetrates through nearly every topic on this forum, and yet the cause (why be in a cycle to begin with??) and the implications of this belief (what does it mean for other species? our world? society?) are not discussed........

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by Altair

I disagree and I would say there are near limitless possibilities here. Some may incarnate a billion times or more, and many may never get ''enlightened'' (whatever it means to you..). Reducing it to ''300-400 lifetimes'' is, to me at least, as comical as saying you live once and then go to heaven or hell. Actually, you believe in annihilation, you just expand the number of life times. You reduce spirituality and the universe to something orderly and very structured and I think that's folly.

It is incorrect to say that one can incarnate a billion times or more. Earth is 13 billion years old. Not considering the jastation period in the womb, it implies that the life span in each reincarnation at this rate would be of 13 years, that is too short.

If we examine the past incarnations of Arjun the Mahabharat Hero we have the following record

103 million BC Nara
41.04 million BC Kartvirya Arjun
19.44million BC Bali the King of Apes.
1500 BC Arjun
1486 AD One member of Panch Sakha

Arjun is a highly elevated soul with all good virtues.You can see, he incarnated only 6 times during past 103 million years.

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by Altair

The main issue as I see it with OPVerma's comments is that there is still that innate desire to place order upon the universe and human life, as if it's all understandable through numbers of life times and one species alone. Hinduism is obsessed with numbers and order, and like so many other religions, like Buddhism, Christianity, etc. it is inherently negative towards this world and seeks to escape it. The world is seen first as a curse, not a blessing. The only 'blessing' lies in one's god given capacity to escape it..

All other non-human species are supposedly only existing so they can eventually become human beings, so what they are is just fodder and filler really. The splendour of the natural world is reduced to its usefulness to human beings, but now spiritually. Then when they are all human, finally (the lucky lot of them can now talk and read scripture....), they are only supposed to live 'spiritually' and get enlightenment as fast as possible, because, well, ''the worldly things are bad'' and ''we need to escape it!''...

This entire belief system is rarely criticized yet all this talk about Enlightenment penetrates through nearly every topic on this forum, and yet the cause (why be in a cycle to begin with??) and the implications of this belief (what does it mean for other species? our world? society?) are not discussed........

Very intelligent questions but I have little time to answer. I have explained them and a lot more in 900 pages of my science books ( dealing with facts and figures and not with rhetoric ) 'All the Knowledge in the Universe'.

Hinduism suggests active ( like Arjun and myself), and passive ways of the sages and seers doing meditation in jungle, to attain the highest goal of immortality.

For a long time Western Fellows believed in sense enjoyment, deviating from spirituality( ignoring Christ's simple life style) that leads to final death of the soul when the solar system/ Universe get annihilated.

Whether Hindu or Christian, the choice is yours to select active or passive way of attaining immortality or face final death.

Some creatures like Jelly fish are made by Nature. However ,All these creatures that you see are made by Kashyap (genetic scientists). Many disgusting creatures like rats and mosquitoes are experimental errors. They have little role to play in either in their own or in our spiritual progress.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by OPVerma

For a long time Western Fellows believed in sense enjoyment, deviating from spirituality( ignoring Christ's simple life style) that leads to final death of the soul when the solar system/ Universe get annihilated.

People chase spirituality for enjoyment too, or is bliss not enjoyable and instead a nasty experience?

Originally Posted by OPVerma

Whether Hindu or Christian, the choice is yours to select active or passive way of attaining immortality or face final death.

The way I see it we're already immortal, and there is no escape to immortality nor to any 'cycle'. If there is a cycle that can end, it would also have a beginning. But why would there be a beginning, why would something go from spiritual cosmic collectivism to individualism and sense experience? Isn't the former supposed to be too grand and good to be true..? If it was possible to become individuated it means it will be possible to do it again, even after Enlightenment. This means the cycle is in fact unending..

Originally Posted by OPVerma

Some creatures like Jelly fish are made by Nature. However ,All these creatures that you see are made by Kashyap (genetic scientists). Many disgusting creatures like rats and mosquitoes are experimental errors. They have little role to play in either in their own or in our spiritual progress.

Every species has a function. Those rats and mosquitoes you abhor will be food to 'nicer' species. I do not want a world without them. But it's a bit of an issue with religion in general.. that distaste there is for certain species and environments, and why they always imagine their heaven to be a place of unicorns and sunshine.

[shankara]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Well now, there's the thing. When you understand Jung's model of the ego and what they ancients mystics call Maya or the false/programmed self they're the same thing. Clinically if you lost your ego you'd end up having to be spoon fed because you're so far gone. Interestingly that's what happens with the achievement of Samadhi or dissolution of the false self. Selfish desires are also within Maya as they are within ego.

I think that the spiritual translators not the writers have/had a poor understanding of the real meaning of the words they were using. The writers would have been using something other than English and certainly Sanskrit.

Interesting, I've read some Jung but I don't think I'm familiar with his exact conception of the Ego. Thanks for the tip, will check it out.

[OPVerma]

Originally Posted by Altair

I wonder about that too..
Ask OPVerma, I was quoting him.

Actually this number 300 -400 lifetimes is a guesstimate. Those who are highly evolved like the Mahabharat hero Arjun, they incarnate along with the Avatar of god Krishna as and when it occurs, as his team member. In past 100 million years Arjun as per known records has incarnated about 4 -5 times only.

Dr. Brain Weiss a psycho therapist and author, has done research on the subject. He has taken people in their 15 -20 past lifetimes during last 5000 years through Regression. He recalls himself to be a priest in Zuggarat of Sumerian Civilization. This works out to be one rebirth/reincarnation per 300 years.

However this rebirth figure would vary from individual to individual, his spiritual planning and his Karma . The 300 - 400 figure is merely an indication. IT IS THEREFORE IMPORTANT TO PLAN OUR SPIRITUAL LIFE AND ATTAIN THE FINAL GOAL IN ABOUT 2 LIFETIMES OR (about 108 YEARS).