Convincing family to go vegan

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Gem

Animal products are essential to human diets, B12 in particular, but also creatine, carnosine, and other essential or beneficial nutrients. Your taste for dairy in healthy in this sense.

A vegan diet is fair for all ethical considerations but people promoting it really should educate interested parties on dietary supplements the body requires, or is most likely to be deficient in pure plant diets.

Except animal products aren't essential for human health and it's been proven time and again. Their consumption is directly related to heart disease, diabetes, some cancers, MS, Parkinsons.....This morning I was reading a bunch of testimonials from people whose rheumatoid arthritis was 'cured' by omitting all animal products (and especially dairy) from their diet.

These factors explain why three or four medical facilities (Texas Midland hospital for example) are now actively promoting and teaching a vegan diet for their patients. https://www.google.ca/search?client=...JRiqL5A6DzsaAC

The following link is a post written about the research of Dr. Roy Swank, neurologist, who studied the connection between a meat inclusive diet and MS. What he found is that the people who dumped the stuff, were effectively cured of all their symptoms and remained symptom free, unless they began to cheat and reintroduce meat or dairy. https://nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/2...sis-with-diet/

[Debrah]

Quoted: It bacically depends on environment, so people in lusher regions would eat less meat and more vege stuff, and people living in high altitudes, polar regions, deserts, islands would eat less veg and more animal products.....


Another thing that most people don't know is that those cultures who have high meat diet, like the Inuit also die 13 years sooner than the neighbouring cultures who eat a varied diet that includes plants. The average life span of a Canadian is 81 years compared to the Inuit lifespan of 68 years. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-003...149059-eng.htm

[T.L.M.]

Regardless of health benefits, there is one thing I noticed with putting 'anything' in my body:

As long as you appreciate it, don't take it for granted and appreciate the intake;

I.E.: your I'nteral/E'ternal energies will transmute anything that is negative within it.
Sustenance is sustenance regardless.

I know GOD does not care about that, more at steak than that.
However, moderation in everything is key.

Haha!

[T.L.M.]

Regardless of health benefits there is one thing I noticed with putting anything in my body:

As long as you appreciate it, don't take it for granted and appreciate the meal itself, your interneal energies will transmute anything that is negative within it. sustenance is sustenance regardless. I know GOD does not care about that, more at steak then that. haha.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Quoted: It bacically depends on environment, so people in lusher regions would eat less meat and more vege stuff, and people living in high altitudes, polar regions, deserts, islands would eat less veg and more animal products.....


Another thing that most people don't know is that those cultures who have high meat diet, like the Inuit also die 13 years sooner than the neighbouring cultures who eat a varied diet that includes plants. The average life span of a Canadian is 81 years compared to the Inuit lifespan of 68 years. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-003...149059-eng.htm

Well the statistics across the board do not show a longer life expectancy for vegans than the mean life expectancy. What we do find is the first nations people of the Americas, and also Australia where I live, have significantly higher morbidity and mortality rates, including infant mortality. This is due to much deeper social issues of cultural destruction, poverty and so forth.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Except animal products aren't essential for human health and it's been proven time and again. Their consumption is directly related to heart disease, diabetes, some cancers, MS, Parkinsons.....This morning I was reading a bunch of testimonials from people whose rheumatoid arthritis was 'cured' by omitting all animal products (and especially dairy) from their diet.

Essential nutrients such as V B12 only occur in significant quantities in animal products. Now days we can extract V B12 from fermentation processes (I guess bacteria produce it?) and use it as a supplement or to fortify vegan foods.

These factors explain why three or four medical facilities (Texas Midland hospital for example) are now actively promoting and teaching a vegan diet for their patients. https://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=texas+midland+vegan+ diet&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=jNB0WoJRiqL5A6DzsaAC

They will have qualified dietitions to ensure the proper nutrient profile of such diets.

The following link is a post written about the research of Dr. Roy Swank, neurologist, who studied the connection between a meat inclusive diet and MS. What he found is that the people who dumped the stuff, were effectively cured of all their symptoms and remained symptom free, unless they began to cheat and reintroduce meat or dairy. https://nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/2...sis-with-diet/

Yes, higher rates of MS, and a number of other conditions, are correlated with 'traditional North American Diets', high in animal fats. I'm not sure if that applies to lean meat.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Maybe the problem is that you forgot what the original situation was that was causing the disease in vegan's parents:

'.....My parents are suffering from very high blood pressure, and I'm really worried they are going to suffer from a heart attack if they don't change their heavy meat and dairy based diets.....'

Definitely sure that suggesting 'fatty meat' to a vegan, who's trying to get parents to at least try a vegan diet (or even just cut back on the ****)....is bizarre to say the least.

There is ample evidence from the medical profession that a high-fat - low-carb diet has astonishing beneficial effects on people who suffer from insulin resistance.
These include a massive reduction in blood pressure, hugely reduced if not complete eradication of diabetes, better sleep, vastly increased energy levels and overall well-being. All backed up by clinical data.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Gem

Calories are still an issue, and fat is very calorie dense be it animal or vege derived (same cals per gram in both). True enough to say that carbs are not an essential nutrient - but all veges contain some amount of them, so it's more like an 'inevitable nutrient'. Potatoes, beans, corn, lentils, chickpeas and some other veges are very high in carbs...

You are perpetuating the calorie myth. The argument of the high-fat - low-carb (Banting diet) proponents is that 1 calorie is not the same as another 1 calorie.
It depends on how the calorie is broken down in the body. Calories from sugar follow a different breakdown path to calories from fat. The result is that 1 calories from sugar deposit 3 times the amount of body fat compared to the same number of calories from fat.
More than that, following the Banting diet for a few weeks eventually changes the internal flora in the digestive track in a beneficial way, so that people eat less and feel sated for a longer period after a meal, less nibbling and in-between snacks.

True, it doesn't work for all people but for those where it works it works wonders.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by markings

You are perpetuating the calorie myth. The argument of the high-fat - low-carb (Banting diet) proponents is that 1 calorie is not the same as another 1 calorie.

I'm not advocating high fat/low carb diets (ketogenic diet). But some people find these very helpful in weight loss and better health.

It depends on how the calorie is broken down in the body. Calories from sugar follow a different breakdown path to calories from fat. The result is that 1 calories from sugar deposit 3 times the amount of body fat compared to the same number of calories from fat.

That's not true. Fat is most easily stored as fat. Sugars increase insulin more than fat does, and insulin is a hormone involved in fat storage. In fact sugars (carbs) in themselves do not easily process into fat, so the body tends to store sugars as glycogen in the liver and muscles. If we eat more sugar than the body can store as glycogen, then it is converted to fat (de novo lipogenisis) which can then be stored in the adipose tissue (fat cells).

The body 'prefers' to just store dietry fat directly than go to the trouble of converting sugars, but if there is a calories excess it will convert carbs, and even protein, for storage in the adipose tissue (fat)

A person on a ketogenic diet (high fat low carb) who consumes more calories that they expend will gain weight.

More than that, following the Banting diet for a few weeks eventually changes the internal flora in the digestive track in a beneficial way, so that people eat less and feel sated for a longer period after a meal, less nibbling and in-between snacks.

True, it doesn't work for all people but for those where it works it works wonders.

Indeed, the balance of gut bacteria is very important, and often over looked.

Lastly, there is a lot of well researched scientific evidence that shows the negative impacts of saturated fats (animal fats). I find that people promoting high consumption of animal products (ketogenec diets) seem to overlook all that research. Not that I claim saturated fat is bad, just that consumption levels common to most ketogenic diets (such as banting) is well outside the healthy range. I would suggest minimising saturated fats to 'a bit', and and gaining fats from raw olive oil, nuts, avocados, and fatty fish like salmon and trout.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well the statistics across the board do not show a longer life expectancy for vegans than the mean life expectancy. What we do find is the first nations people of the Americas, and also Australia where I live, have significantly higher morbidity and mortality rates, including infant mortality. This is due to much deeper social issues of cultural destruction, poverty and so forth.

The researchers at Harvard would disagree apparently with your first sentence. '....Researchers at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital followed more than 130,000 people for 36 years, monitoring their diet, lifestyle, illness and mortality.

They found that switching between 15g and 19g of animal protein – the equivalent of a single sausage – for the likes of nuts, pulses or legumes significantly cuts the risk of early death. Substituting plant protein for eggs also leads to a 19 per cent reduction in death risk.

The research also found a 10 per cent higher intake of meat was associated with a two per cent higher mortality rate and an eight per cent higher chance of cardiovascular death...' http://www.goingveganhealthbenefits....ossible-terms/

And in Canada, our government keeps stats on the Inuit of the north, and they've found that population dies on average, 13 years sooner than the rest of the Canadian population (which would include native peoples who live further south and closer to urban/town centres). Also, the Canadian government found that while the rest of Canada's mortality rates went up by two years, the Inuit actually fell back a year or two. And one thing that is different is that there is more historically, subsistence hunting among the Inuit. More meat. Fewer plants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19800772