Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-01-2014, 04:35 AM
Adept
Posts: n/a
 
Judaism and Occultism

Has anyone else noticed that Judaism seems to have some correlation to modern occultism. I was raised Jewish and will never lose my heritage, I'm certainly proud of it. Yet I think it is also what boosted me completely into Thelema and Luciferianism. To start, Judaism is a rather "elitist" (I don't mean this negatively) in that we are proud, chosen, you can't just casually convert like with other religions. Also, Jewish mysticism. The Tree of Life may be the most important symbol in western occultism. And let's not forget openmindedness - Judaism evolves unlike other religions. We can take other paths, see the stories as metaphor, anything like that and it's just part of the religion.

Just a mini-thought-rant. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-01-2014, 05:05 AM
Yamah
Posts: n/a
 
Judaism is Exclusive but not necessarily Elitist. Important distinction. When someone's trying to convert we don't look for 'the best of the best' or the cream of the crop... we just check to see if the person will follow the rules (and knows what he's getting into).

Yes, the Tree of Life... adopted as the central symbol of Hermetics (and then twisted by poor understanding)... used as the 'big secret' of many societies, including The Order of the Golden Dawn (before being partially disseminated). Also the inspiration of Tarot cards, an important tool in modern occultism.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-01-2014, 05:14 AM
Adept
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamah
Judaism is Exclusive but not necessarily Elitist. Important distinction. When someone's trying to convert we don't look for 'the best of the best' or the cream of the crop... we just check to see if the person will follow the rules (and knows what he's getting into).

Yes, the Tree of Life... adopted as the central symbol of Hermetics (and then twisted by poor understanding)... used as the 'big secret' of many societies, including The Order of the Golden Dawn (before being partially disseminated). Also the inspiration of Tarot cards, an important tool in modern occultism.

How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-01-2014, 05:24 AM
Albalida Albalida is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 751
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept
Has anyone else noticed that Judaism seems to have some correlation to modern occultism. I was raised Jewish and will never lose my heritage, I'm certainly proud of it. Yet I think it is also what boosted me completely into Thelema and Luciferianism. To start, Judaism is a rather "elitist" (I don't mean this negatively) in that we are proud, chosen, you can't just casually convert like with other religions. Also, Jewish mysticism. The Tree of Life may be the most important symbol in western occultism. And let's not forget openmindedness - Judaism evolves unlike other religions. We can take other paths, see the stories as metaphor, anything like that and it's just part of the religion.

Just a mini-thought-rant. Any thoughts?

Judaic mysticism did form the basis of several traditions of Western Ceremonial Magick.

Modern occultism does also have influences from Core Shamanism (which could be more problematic because these practices were basically stolen from indigenous tribes who should have had option to be "elitist" because that would keep their sacred secrets respected), Theosophy (which in turn also has Eastern occult influences), science (every time we use the word "energy" in a woowoo sense of the term, Richard Dawkins' blood pressure goes up a little bit more), and now chaos magick (very modern tradition that incorporates pop culture references as Jungian keys to the magical psyche).

If you're proud of the influence, that might be a sign that it was done right. A lot of people from other source influences would look at what their culture has become in the occult and go "Are you serious??"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-01-2014, 05:30 AM
Yamah
Posts: n/a
 
"How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective."

That's how.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21-01-2014, 05:43 AM
Adept
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamah
"How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective."

That's how.

Care to elaborate?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-01-2014, 07:31 AM
Yamah
Posts: n/a
 
The Tree of Life is a set of symbols that represent Divine Truths. They have specific, objective meanings and associations.

Though many texts disagree on certain specifics they all agree on the generalities and their disagreements can usually be resolved by understanding that they approach the symbols from different perspectives.

The best example would be with the 4th symbol. The ancient name for it was 'Gedulah' or Greatness and the modern name for it is 'Chesed' or Kindness. Though the name for it has changed all sources agree that this symbol represents the force of Expansion. Nobody says it is a force of Contraction and there is no room whatsoever for saying so. The change of the name can be understood by following the perspectives used in Kabbalah through the ages and their nuances. Nonetheless, the general understanding remains the same.

In Hermetic Kabbalah the tree of life was taken in many different directions through gnosticism, so much so that all the meanings have been skewed. Even basics like how to apply it to the human body (traditionally Chesed is Right, Gevurah is Left; in Hermetic, Chesed is usually Left and Gevurah is usually Right) have been skewed. Many other things have been misinterpretted because the interpretters' understandings didn't have a proper foundation in Torah, Gemarah and other Jewish texts and usually didn't even have a good understanding of the Hebrew language and how it relates to the tree of life (an essential foundation).

Not having a proper foundation leaves the mind floating through the air, reaching conclusions without backing and following assumptions to half-truths which lead to drifting falsehoods. True Knowledge is like a Tree, not a cloud.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24-01-2014, 06:15 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,976
  7luminaries's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamah
The Tree of Life is a set of symbols that represent Divine Truths. They have specific, objective meanings and associations.

Though many texts disagree on certain specifics they all agree on the generalities and their disagreements can usually be resolved by understanding that they approach the symbols from different perspectives.

The best example would be with the 4th symbol. The ancient name for it was 'Gedulah' or Greatness and the modern name for it is 'Chesed' or Kindness. Though the name for it has changed all sources agree that this symbol represents the force of Expansion. Nobody says it is a force of Contraction and there is no room whatsoever for saying so. The change of the name can be understood by following the perspectives used in Kabbalah through the ages and their nuances. Nonetheless, the general understanding remains the same.

In Hermetic Kabbalah the tree of life was taken in many different directions through gnosticism, so much so that all the meanings have been skewed. Even basics like how to apply it to the human body (traditionally Chesed is Right, Gevurah is Left; in Hermetic, Chesed is usually Left and Gevurah is usually Right) have been skewed. Many other things have been misinterpretted because the interpretters' understandings didn't have a proper foundation in Torah, Gemarah and other Jewish texts and usually didn't even have a good understanding of the Hebrew language and how it relates to the tree of life (an essential foundation).

Not having a proper foundation leaves the mind floating through the air, reaching conclusions without backing and following assumptions to half-truths which lead to drifting falsehoods. True Knowledge is like a Tree, not a cloud.

Yamah -- I didn't realise this about Hermetics...I don't know as much about it.

Do you know what was the basis given in Hermetics for this switch? Surely they must have understood that they were reversing the traditional association of expansion with greatness/lovingkindness/compassion - right hand of God and contraction with awe/strength/judgment - left hand of God.

I do a lot of healing work with guides that we often call archangels. And so I am particularly curious. I always found it interesting that the archangel representing the force of expansion is so serious and mild in his compassionate and loving manner. (I see them both as male). His intensity is purely in his focus and in his strength of character. In other words, the expansive force of love is very calm, disciplined, and strong. Whereas the contracting force of strength is very intense in purity of emotion and expression of love and truth.

In other words, strength is in love. And love is in strength.
Was this -- or something related -- in any way behind the "switch", which otherwise would be very hard indeed to justify with any clarity? Just wondering.

Adept if you have any information on this, please also feel free to share.
Thank you!

Peace & blessings,
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24-01-2014, 07:33 PM
RabbiO RabbiO is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 383
 
I must be looking at the wrong material. I have read about the reversal, Yamah's comment was not the first time I have seen this mentioned. However every illustration I have run across from non-Jewish esoteric sources always has the sefirot in the right order and on the proper side of the tree.

I must not get out much!

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24-01-2014, 07:35 PM
Adept
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RabbiO
I must be looking at the wrong material. I have read about the reversal, Yamah's comment was not the first time I have seen this mentioned. However every illustration I have run across from non-Jewish esoteric sources always has the sefirot in the right order and on the proper side of the tree.

I must not get out much!

Peter

It's not the sephirot it's simply the label. Usually Chesed is on the right but Hermeticism has it as if the tree is facing you, saying Chesed is on the left.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums