Karma and the Foundational Quantum Reality

[Melahin]

Originally Posted by Gem

QM says nothing about Kamma at all as far I have heard.

My point exactly. This more sounds like someone trying to pull a dogma down over our heads. Like QM as far as I understand says exactly the same thing as Greek Mythology... just without all the you know

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Melahin

My point exactly. This more sounds like someone trying to pull a dogma down over our heads. Like QM as far as I understand says exactly the same thing as Greek Mythology... just without all the you know

Well, QM can't really address such things as intent, volition, motive and so forth, but we still intend, have good-will, ill-will and so forth.

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by Gem

So you see how it is loaded with unkind personal remarks. This is the reason I don't talk to you.

What I said above you are on record saying and doing. As to this comment, actually to be fair, you started sniping when I was pointing out where you kept contradicting yourself and the Buddhist teachings. I guess you never liked that and your litany of posts across this forum made sure of that - calling me amongst other things, "hater" "playing power games" "playing games" "unkind", "no understanding" and reporting me of course etc. Then went on to say how Buddha and Buddhist teachings, people in robes, teachers, etc are not trustworthy. Just for pointing out Buddhist teachings and your own points - that was quite a reaction

Anyway, as you have started this conversation, I would be interested in you responding for once to the points you make as opposed to making this about your personal feelings or how unkind, stupid and nasty I am, or how non-existent and full of good will you are. As this is a discussion forum, as you posit the points it'd be very interesting to hear the thought out perspectives behind them So let's focus on the points you posit eh? That'd be great!

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=120292

BT

[jonesboy]

Here is more the Buddhist view on things 7L.

http://zen-ua.org/wp-content/uploads...ra_english.pdf



Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are given up to discrimination and the wise are not?



The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these

channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of and ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make

discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to

ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become

imprisioned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.



Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is

no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false

discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realise that things have nothing to do with

qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a

creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move

along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.

[jro5139]

I find this all very interesting L7 and thank you for posting it!

The definitions of entanglement of souls reminds me of Michael Newton's books, which are basically how I see things as well. That is because I'm positive I have found several members of my soul family in this lifetime, as well as having met in passing some members of close proximity soul families.
The last definition of entanglement is interesting to me as well, because even with people that are not necessarily in my soul family, I sometimes feel and think as though I am supposed to interact with them, even if it is only for a short amount of time.
I could use my current and past clients as examples, I sometimes think I come to be in situations with people and I am meant to be there. For example, the school in which I am currently working, even with several students that are not my clients. I seem to have become their emotional support and they have latched onto me.

This whole talk of karma and the mandela effect are super interesting to me on a personal level. For one, I had my own sort of personally mandela effect right before my spiritual awakening began. Back when I used to watch the news, and I spent 2 days watching the news counting down to what they described as an asteroid heading towards Earth, and they were counting down to the time it was supposed to come close/ hit. Then all of a sudden they just stopped talking about it and never mentioned it again. Not sure if this really happened or not, but it was weird that they just stopped talking about it with no explanation.

On the subject of karma... I have been increasing becoming interested in Buddhism, although it is all very new to me. Well I learned of the basis overview of it a long time ago, and accepted a lot of it, but since my spiritual awakening I have more interested in understanding it, as well as some aspects of Hinduism.
From what I understand so far (which admittedly is not much as it's very new to me), it makes a lot more sense than this loa stuff. I went through a period of reading and studying the loa and after some time of observing my own life, I have to conclude that this is just not how my life works.

I feel that I have been working through some karma in this lifetime, which would have to stem from previous lifetimes. And some of this (I think) is more along the lines of Hinduism than Buddhism but I have been hearing about cycles of time and that we have gone through or are close to the end of a cycle (hence the purpose of working through karma now). This makes a lot of sense to me given what I have been through in this life and what I have been shown and discovered about some of my "past lives".
Also that it seems important for me to come to some understandings and grasp certain things before other things can happen, so that I do not end up going down a more material based path (?).
This leads me to believe that some things are pre-destined to happen. But I also think that whether or not things happen depends on our decisions, and timelines are subject to change based on what we do.

I don't know about the "no-self" concept. There is something that carries over from life to life. I would call this a soul. Interestingly, I have also experienced aspects of my soul (over-soul?) that are not a part of my current experience as "me" (my personality, etc). Yet a part of my over-soul has come out at times and interfered with my life direction and actions. This aspects acted in accordance with what had happened in past lives (possibly to even out some past karma?). I only know that what I experienced wasn't a part of what I had currently felt.

Whatever teaching it may or may not be, my view of karma and how life works, is based more on what I have and am experiencing, rather than following any particular teaching. And what I am experiencing (I think) is working off built up karma from past lives. And there's got to be a reason why this is all happening now. For one, it may be that at this time I have only now become strong enough to endure what it would take to work on this old karma. For another, it may be the end of some type of age in which now is the time to either move on, or repeat the class. This is what I feel I am experiencing and what feels right to me in my gut.

What do you think?

[sky]

Originally Posted by jro5139

I find this all very interesting L7 and thank you for posting it!

The definitions of entanglement of souls reminds me of Michael Newton's books, which are basically how I see things as well. That is because I'm positive I have found several members of my soul family in this lifetime, as well as having met in passing some members of close proximity soul families.
The last definition of entanglement is interesting to me as well, because even with people that are not necessarily in my soul family, I sometimes feel and think as though I am supposed to interact with them, even if it is only for a short amount of time.
I could use my current and past clients as examples, I sometimes think I come to be in situations with people and I am meant to be there. For example, the school in which I am currently working, even with several students that are not my clients. I seem to have become their emotional support and they have latched onto me.

This whole talk of karma and the mandela effect are super interesting to me on a personal level. For one, I had my own sort of personally mandela effect right before my spiritual awakening began. Back when I used to watch the news, and I spent 2 days watching the news counting down to what they described as an asteroid heading towards Earth, and they were counting down to the time it was supposed to come close/ hit. Then all of a sudden they just stopped talking about it and never mentioned it again. Not sure if this really happened or not, but it was weird that they just stopped talking about it with no explanation.

On the subject of karma... I have been increasing becoming interested in Buddhism, although it is all very new to me. Well I learned of the basis overview of it a long time ago, and accepted a lot of it, but since my spiritual awakening I have more interested in understanding it, as well as some aspects of Hinduism.
From what I understand so far (which admittedly is not much as it's very new to me), it makes a lot more sense than this loa stuff. I went through a period of reading and studying the loa and after some time of observing my own life, I have to conclude that this is just not how my life works.

I feel that I have been working through some karma in this lifetime, which would have to stem from previous lifetimes. And some of this (I think) is more along the lines of Hinduism than Buddhism but I have been hearing about cycles of time and that we have gone through or are close to the end of a cycle (hence the purpose of working through karma now). This makes a lot of sense to me given what I have been through in this life and what I have been shown and discovered about some of my "past lives".
Also that it seems important for me to come to some understandings and grasp certain things before other things can happen, so that I do not end up going down a more material based path (?).
This leads me to believe that some things are pre-destined to happen. But I also think that whether or not things happen depends on our decisions, and timelines are subject to change based on what we do.

I don't know about the "no-self" concept. There is something that carries over from life to life. I would call this a soul. Interestingly, I have also experienced aspects of my soul (over-soul?) that are not a part of my current experience as "me" (my personality, etc). Yet a part of my over-soul has come out at times and interfered with my life direction and actions. This aspects acted in accordance with what had happened in past lives (possibly to even out some past karma?). I only know that what I experienced wasn't a part of what I had currently felt.

Whatever teaching it may or may not be, my view of karma and how life works, is based more on what I have and am experiencing, rather than following any particular teaching. And what I am experiencing (I think) is working off built up karma from past lives. And there's got to be a reason why this is all happening now. For one, it may be that at this time I have only now become strong enough to endure what it would take to work on this old karma. For another, it may be the end of some type of age in which now is the time to either move on, or repeat the class. This is what I feel I am experiencing and what feels right to me in my gut.

What do you think?

If you are referring to ' no self ' according to Buddhism then if you read some teachings from Buddha on ' Anatta ' you will notice it is ' Non self ' or ' Not self ' rather than No self....

Originally Posted by jro5139

There is something that carries over from life to life. I would call this a soul. Interestingly, I have also experienced aspects of my soul (over-soul?)

The Buddha didn't call it soul. There's some debate about what exactly crosses over from lifetime to lifetime. Some (buddhist) teacher once said it was only our bad habbit's

The general thought in buddhism seems to be that only the volition ( your intention, whatever you cling to as wanting to experience again or anew or finally) you experience at the point of death is the seed from which a new birth springs. In that sense there is no idea of soul or ego that gets put into a new body. More like a seed from a tree that falls and grows a new tree, eventually seeding a new tree etc. Until the last tree in line stops producing new seeds.

As for you experiencing parts of your (over)soul.
In post 4 of this thread I wrote a little something as to what could explain that.
As those stem from my current (Often faulty) understanding please disregard anything that doesn't resonate..

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...49&postcount=4

With Love
Eelco

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

The Buddha didn't call it soul. There's some debate about what exactly crosses over from lifetime to lifetime. Some (buddhist) teacher once said it was only our bad habbit's

The general thought in buddhism seems to be that only the volition ( your intention, whatever you cling to as wanting to experience again or anew or finally) you experience at the point of death is the seed from which a new birth springs. In that sense there is no idea of soul or ego that gets put into a new body. More like a seed from a tree that falls and grows a new tree, eventually seeding a new tree etc. Until the last tree in line stops producing new seeds.

As for you experiencing parts of your (over)soul.
In post 4 of this thread I wrote a little something as to what could explain that.
As those stem from my current (Often faulty) understanding please disregard anything that doesn't resonate..

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...49&postcount=4

With Love
Eelco

Thanks for that explanation, the intention thing is very interesting...
I'm not sure I can believe there is no soul, or that the soul isn't part of what crosses over. I'll have to contemplate that one for a while. In a sense, if everything is all one ultimately (and I believe that it is), than it could be, however I have developed a strong belief in the soul.

As for your post, this line stuck out to me as sort of what I experienced...
"When tuning into that intention he or she may pick up a glimpse of the being (sort of a snapshot that goes along with the intention through the conservation of energy principle.) that intended the thing."

That feels a lot like it because this being or intention seemed determined to make me even out some past life karma (without me understanding what was happening until much later). I did take this feeling/ being/ whatever it was to be a part of my soul (although not something I related to because it was a past life that I didn't realize until later). It seemed to feel something that I didn't and influenced my actions. Yet it felt like still a part of my soul.
I realize that probably sounds like I'm just trying to not take responsibility for my actions, however, when I felt that intention, I was like "what the heck was that and where did it come from?"
I later got a glimpse of a past life while doing a meditation that explained to me what the karma was.

This is also interesting to me...
"So I view past lives not as my self past lives, but lives that intended something I am either to fulfill or dissolve during my lifetime."
While I view past lives as versions of myself, the ones that I have been made aware of, have come up because they relate to something that is happening in this one. It's never just a random thing I'm made aware of, it's something to work through or learn differently.
When I saw the past life mentioned above in a meditation, I didn't yet know how it related to this one, then when I was made aware of the full story, it all clicked and made sense.
So whether it's truly "me" or just something I'm picking up on it's definitely coming up for a reason or to help me better understand what is happening now.

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Here is more the Buddhist view on things 7L.

http://zen-ua.org/wp-content/uploads...ra_english.pdf

Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are given up to discrimination and the wise are not?

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of and ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisioned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realise that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.

Jonesboy,

....this I like! And the attachment that you provided, as well (and yes, though I know that it's an "attachment", I will enjoy perusing it).

This sounds very much like my own recent realization, namely that the map is not the territory.

Reference: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...7&postcount=42

Thanks....

[guthrio]

My apologies for double-post. Please disregard this one.