Explaining Astral Projection to a "Doctor"

Hello Friends

So I thought I would ask - have you ever tried to explain astral projection to someone who is...

a) not spiritual
b) physician who bases your response on a medical model / psychiatric outlook
c) someone who insists it's no different than a normal dream

Last night I met up with my close friend who also happens to be a physician. Although he doesn't directly judge me on what I tell him... he did have his contrasting opinions and compared my telling of astral experiences to his biomedical perspective.

A few points he made that I agreed with:

I'm not saying your experience isn't real - because you experienced something regardless of where this experience took place... just because I was not present to witness your experience does not mean it's not REAL

He compared my experiences in the astral to some of his schizophrenic patients. He explained how their experiences are just as real as his experience talking to me in the present moment. Just because he does not have those experiences in his mind and his reality - does not mean he will under value the experience of his patient or claim it's not "real"

Some points I was unhappy with... he claimed there is no difference between a dream, lucid dream, astral experience, out of body experience. Because he claimed that my dreams might be completely different than what he classifies to be a dream. He said for all he knows, he could be astral projecting all the time but to him that's his understanding of what dreams are.

I tried to explain that the presence of consciousness, feelings and judgement is significantly different in the astral vs. regular dreams. I felt that ordinary dreams have almost a drunk-like, inconsistent sloppiness about them. Shifting from scene to scene, pieces are blank. But you get the general happening of things. Astral however - you are fully engaged in the experiences on all levels.

Long story short... it was DIFFICULT explaining validity behind astral travel to a friend who happens to be a physician... let me tell you, hahaha. It was a fun challenge but I still feel he keeps insisting I check myself in to see a psychiatrist the only reason he didn't express concern is because I explained how these experiences inspire me in the physical world to be a better and happier person.

My concluding question... how do you explain astral projections. What points do you bring up to validate your experience & have you successfully been able to convince someone who happens to fit into the categories mentioned above?

[Phanatulum]

the point you were unhappy with is a good point. We put labels on things that perhaps should be viewed more as a continuem rather than any given label. Astral experiences are not cut and dry this that or the other thing . There are a myrid of grey, inbetween and less clear areas of experience ... some your probabaly aware of and others you cannot imagine the possibility. Perhaps he meant that the grey areas may not fit into the popularized internet labels.Maybe he's more open than you realize.

I spoke to my doc about things too. He was very open and non judgemental about the experiences. It was difficult for me because I was explaining to him that I had experienced a healing and did not need any prescribed medications anymore. He checked me out agreed and DC'd the medications. ... it gave me a bit of documentation on the experience which might come in handy at some point.

Phanatulum, I'm glad to hear that your doctor was open with understanding your experience :) and furthermore, understanding of your healing! I could see that being a point of confusion and skepticism for many people so it's amazing that he discontinued the medication. Having the paper work on you is great, you should hold onto that. I wish more documented research studies/ scholarly published studies were done on these experiences. I just wrote a paper for one of my university classes about Indigenous healing, shamans and so forth... but unfortunately it was not focused specifically on OBE astral experiences. If situations permit me to do so... I might try and publish a research paper for this exact topic :) if so, with participant permission who knows! Maybe all the claims we have here might one day be considered for a scientific analysis. It seems the rest of the word needs quantitative proof these days :(

[astralwanderer]

My husband tells me AP is just a dream. The other night I told him about seeing my neighbor walking his dog at 2 a.m. with a flashlight (which awoke me), and he said, "that was just one of your nightmares." I have quit trying to persuade him. ;)

Most people will continue to believe what they want to believe and will not be convinced otherwise no matter how much evidence you can provide to the contrary.

astralwanderer, what a shame huh! But as much as we all wish everyone could experience these wonderful happenings... I guess there is only so much we can do or say to make them understand. For all it's worth I totally believe you saw your neighbor in an out of body state walking their dog at 2am ;)

In the book I'm reading, the author mentions to play fun tests games with yourself. To select a card from a deck of cards and tape it to a window facing outside. Do no look at the card. Next time you astral project... make it a goal to look at the card. When you awake, to check the card and see if it was in fact what you saw in your astral projection! Neat huh :)

Now, imagine if you were able to willingly project whenever you felt the need. And asked your husband to draw a card say... after you were already asleep and he would be up for another hour or two. If you got a chance to project in that time and he woke you up and you guessed the card correctly. Wouldn't that be wild! hahah

[astralwanderer]

That would be a fun experiment! The sad thing is, I was awake (not out of body) when I saw the neighbor walking the dog. My husband didn't believe the flashlight woke me. That was his smarty pants reply! :) He doesn't believe AP is real, so I have quit telling him about it.

[skygazer]

It doesn't surprise me that your MD friend had those comments to make. His only frame of reference are his studies and your 'symptoms'.

One of things I found amusing in Monroe's first book is how he thought it had to be something wrong with him and had himself checked physically and mentally by physicians, they pronounced him as sane as the next person and one of them actually said if it was happening to himself he would want to follow along to see where the road would take him.

I tried to explain an incident that happened to me as a child to a Dr. but I was by then, a grown up. I told him something came into my room jumped on the bed and set on my chest. He explained that it was sleep paralysis. I told him I wasn't paralyzed to begin with. I saw something that frightened me, pulled the blankets over my head, felt the thing jump onto my bed, felt the mattress move from its weight, then it jumped on me, and that's when I no longer could move. He told me I should pray to god.

[astralwanderer]

Skygazer, that is funny! I told a neurologist that I was having sleep paralysis all the time (before I knew about astral projection) and he said, "oh yeah...where you see little gremlins running around the room? That must be scary." And then changed the subject. Ha!

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by kattykamille

Hello Friends

So I thought I would ask - have you ever tried to explain astral projection to someone who is...

a) not spiritual
b) physician who bases your response on a medical model / psychiatric outlook
c) someone who insists it's no different than a normal dream

Last night I met up with my close friend who also happens to be a physician. Although he doesn't directly judge me on what I tell him... he did have his contrasting opinions and compared my telling of astral experiences to his biomedical perspective.

A few points he made that I agreed with:

I'm not saying your experience isn't real - because you experienced something regardless of where this experience took place... just because I was not present to witness your experience does not mean it's not REAL

He compared my experiences in the astral to some of his schizophrenic patients. He explained how their experiences are just as real as his experience talking to me in the present moment. Just because he does not have those experiences in his mind and his reality - does not mean he will under value the experience of his patient or claim it's not "real"

Some points I was unhappy with... he claimed there is no difference between a dream, lucid dream, astral experience, out of body experience. Because he claimed that my dreams might be completely different than what he classifies to be a dream. He said for all he knows, he could be astral projecting all the time but to him that's his understanding of what dreams are.

I tried to explain that the presence of consciousness, feelings and judgement is significantly different in the astral vs. regular dreams. I felt that ordinary dreams have almost a drunk-like, inconsistent sloppiness about them. Shifting from scene to scene, pieces are blank. But you get the general happening of things. Astral however - you are fully engaged in the experiences on all levels.

Long story short... it was DIFFICULT explaining validity behind astral travel to a friend who happens to be a physician... let me tell you, hahaha. It was a fun challenge but I still feel he keeps insisting I check myself in to see a psychiatrist the only reason he didn't express concern is because I explained how these experiences inspire me in the physical world to be a better and happier person.

My concluding question... how do you explain astral projections. What points do you bring up to validate your experience & have you successfully been able to convince someone who happens to fit into the categories mentioned above?

Honestly in my opinion it's pointless to try and explain or even converse about spiritual topics such as astral projection with most doctors, I'm not saying all of them but most of them unfortunately just cannot see beyond their own physical education and explanations of events that are still to this day are unexplainable. Most of them have invested themselves completely into believing the science behind their practice and that everything we experience is purely on a physical level and basis. They are so invested in it that they often forget that even their medical science in a large part is still just a theory, that there are vastly unproven areas and fields that are being completely geared toward and driven off of theories and those theories are often treated as facts. It's a shame in my opinion that being religious and having faith is viewed by most as being a good characteristic and religious practices are accepted and viewed in a positive light, but a person who is spiritual and participates in spiritual practices such as astral projection are often looked down upon, shunned away, and called crazy in one way or another. And because of this and previous experiences I have completely given up any attempt at discussing and/or explaining my spiritual practices to anyone whom I do not view as "safe." Because mentioning what I have experienced and/or am experiencing to anyone out of that bubble almost always ends up being negative and to me that is sad. People think I am crazy because of the things I believe and experience, but to me it is crazy that people are not attempting to have similar experiences and discover the things that are dictating my beliefs for themselves. To each their own but spiritual people and practices have been persecuted for a long time and it looks like in many ways that persecution is going to continue on, and so for that reason I have chosen to just leave it alone when it comes to people whom have invested their entire life into the physical dimension and the so-called science behind it.

Namaste Katty,

Astral Explorer is a genius and he will hopefully co-create with me some astral research university, some day. :) lol

For anyone who wants to deal with clueless doctors, you can do experiment with said doctor, he puts an object drawing in his living room, you astral there and describe it to him. Simple.

Just ask for permission to see his bedroom or living room or something, or to talk to his dead relative, meet said relative, provide info only doctor knows about that relative, etc.

No worries.

anyway, try dedicate 10-50 hours weekly to astral work and then you'll see you can do more than a billionaire can, if you get to a very high level.

:)

thanks, alex

Google "You can verify for yourself that soul travel is not a dream by conscious astral travel to an area ", by copy and paste and my google+ post will appear :) explaining to you how to prove astral travel. that post has also free e-books and the whole list of links and ideas about astral travel good for beginners that i could PM to you, if you don't manage to get to that post.

i am google+ user AlexP, to see my profile there just type google d..ot com /+AlexP, lots of posts about astral travel and reincarnation.

once you type my google+ address, just add "posts/fLrSWW7jBhS" to see the post about verifying astral travel with all the free e-books, etc.

if you google "This is an astral travel from the book "Projections of the Consciousness" by Waldo Vieira. 3rd Edition" you will get my post about the amazing Monja able to turn matter into energy. or you can type my google+ profile address and then add "posts/45XjzhLnBkf" to get the same nun post as from googling. :)