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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #51  
Old 09-02-2018, 06:58 AM
Eelco Eelco is offline
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Look up at night the night sky.
Points in abundance. each one right where the point is supposed to be made.

I would love to worship any god we made.
The whole point being. there is a point to direct our need for worship and devotion towards..

Sound like what a Guru IS.

With Love
Eelco
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  #52  
Old 23-02-2018, 05:08 PM
Brother Michael Brother Michael is offline
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Language is by its very nature, dualistic.
Words capture and enclose concepts, their purpose is to isolate and define.
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  #53  
Old 23-02-2018, 09:22 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Michael
Language is by its very nature, dualistic.
Words capture and enclose concepts, their purpose is to isolate and define.

Yes of course.

However one of the concepts language captures and encloses is "All is One" which is the opposite of isolation and separation.
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  #54  
Old 28-02-2018, 02:57 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Language cannot be used to relate any experience which exists outside the limitations of it, so it cannot be said that 'language is duality' in as much as it is incongruous.
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  #55  
Old 28-02-2018, 10:25 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Language cannot be used to relate any experience which exists outside the limitations of it, so it cannot be said that 'language is duality' in as much as it is incongruous.

The description of what is thought or felt may indeed never be what is described. We will not know as receivers of those descriptions whether we are understanding what is being described. But this is what we do in communication with each other. We attempt mutual understanding in this way.

If I tell you about the wheel I have made and you go off and make one, and next week we compare our wheels and if they are both wheels then some level of understanding has occurred:)

Last edited by Iamit : 28-02-2018 at 05:27 PM.
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  #56  
Old 24-04-2018, 09:21 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampgrl
To me, describing nonduality with words is like unintentionally cloaking it with duality on some level (if not all levels).


Yes, words are dualistic...because for the word "chair" to have meaning, there has to be things that are not chairs. However, if you take words to be just pointers...fingers pointing at the moon...and not the moon itself...then words perhaps have value. This is also why if you talk about nonduality long enough and to enough people...you will inevitably say things that are contradictory to what was said prior.

The pointer may be pointing right for one person and left for another...depending on their positions and directions they are facing. So to point at nonduality for one person...saying it is nothing may be of more value; but for another person...saying it is everything or Oneness may be of more value. For another, saying it is not everything, nor oneness, nor nothing, nor any combination...may be of more value.

Really, it depends on how attached to words people are. If they are attached to the words, it is a hindrance. When listening to someone talk about nonduality, it is important to try to see past the words...not focusing on the finger and look at the moon.
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  #57  
Old 27-04-2018, 05:52 PM
swampgrl swampgrl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
Yes, words are dualistic...because for the word "chair" to have meaning, there has to be things that are not chairs. However, if you take words to be just pointers...fingers pointing at the moon...and not the moon itself...then words perhaps have value. This is also why if you talk about nonduality long enough and to enough people...you will inevitably say things that are contradictory to what was said prior.

The pointer may be pointing right for one person and left for another...depending on their positions and directions they are facing. So to point at nonduality for one person...saying it is nothing may be of more value; but for another person...saying it is everything or Oneness may be of more value. For another, saying it is not everything, nor oneness, nor nothing, nor any combination...may be of more value.

Really, it depends on how attached to words people are. If they are attached to the words, it is a hindrance. When listening to someone talk about nonduality, it is important to try to see past the words...not focusing on the finger and look at the moon.

Yes, it is like when doctors goes into a patients room to discuss the situation the patient is in.

They are not really there to address the patient but to discuss the disease. In the context of nonduality the discussion is duality as the disease, per say.

'About' nonduality is not nonduality which is duality.

It could be argued that much of if not all spiritual discussion, in general, is 'about' nonduality.
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  #58  
Old 28-04-2018, 12:08 PM
Universal.Vibe Universal.Vibe is offline
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  #59  
Old 29-05-2018, 05:42 PM
uloDoe Youn uloDoe Youn is offline
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Is'nt It Actually a MultipLicity When IT comes Of Describing a Matter; It Runs into To And Fro's to become What MAy, It BeComes; To Read Between the Dotted Line With What For ONe can Attempt the ArtisTic Nature, Or The Concrete Nature, to speAk Thereof, BUt At The SaMe Time, Mix Handle Each Single Word Into An AlteRNative to ComPly Into A MuLtiDuPLicity of DuAl Nature To Come Forth With ThEreOF. So..

WhereAS a Vase LooKs SimILar To IT's Most Side, WorDs PaintEd Spring Up DiFfERenciAtion of HOW ThIngs BE TO BE rEaD Of And Seen When PAinTinG Words LiKe WITh/ VaSEs. S/o..
.
ReCKo~n, THAT THe MORe ConcrETE THe STrUCTUrE OF ThE TEXT written iS; The More EXSTENSIVE THE TEXT BECOMES; WHICH/W-e CAll; deTaIls...

sO ALL CAN BE of MoNoTONE, IF It (COUlD*)

A Solid;,.. "To Solid of a Pottery without Water AND IT WILL NOT MOLD,- To MUcH Fire At the FirNaNce AND It BREAk's,
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  #60  
Old 30-05-2018, 01:05 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Since I have never experienced “Rigpa” with a Tibetan Lama – I cannot say for sure, but the descriptions of Rigpa as the infinite primordial nondual awareness (space) as our ultimate true nature which unfolds when we have fully surrendered or *shifted* into Totality and now realizing the “Unborn” - this paradoxically more intimate than intimate personal experience (because it is a whole being experience, visceral, somatic what have you, what I call ‘energetic’) is yet so Universal it goes beyond all limits and beyond every religion, words …... etc. etc. etc.

Well, that to my mind is the Axis Mundi – the Eagle given Sacred Vision or very akin to Aboriginal Dreamtime vision I once entered with our local Elder.
So whether one calls it Rigpa or Axis Mundi or the ‘Dreamtime’ experience – the words really ultimately fail to describe it, hence mythological descriptions are used instead.

But when a New Age ‘shaman’ (with no Siberian ancestry nor lineage connection to historical Shamanism) tells you (as I recently experienced), that a Shaman never tells their ‘Source of Shamanic Power’ to anybody – well, that to me sounds quite ‘dodgy’, like what wool are they trying to pull over your eyes or what mind/power games they are trying to get away with here if the NonDual Awareness Source is never to be mentioned or referred to or acknowledged or acted from …..

The more into nondual awareness one shifts, the more transparent the real Shaman’s or Spiritual Elder’s ‘Power Source’ becomes which really is “the Power of No-Power” paradox.
Or the more into nondual awareness one shifts with an Elder - again because of the high transparency - the less there is the need for words to communicate or ‘transmit’ meanings to “What Is” (happening).
(And perhaps this is why some Indigenous Elders do not spell things out …..... . )
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Last edited by sentient : 30-05-2018 at 02:22 AM.
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