The silliness of calling Christ an "enlightened man"

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mark

Although I remember it being mentioned that Shams was a wondering Mystic whom Rumi had met, and established a friendship with, I really didn’t know anything about the story until I read all of that.

Actually, I wasn’t really aware of the fact that Shams nickname was “the bird.” The meaning of the name Shams, I had stumbled across probably about 10 years ago, but over time, I must have forgotten what it meant.

I’ll admit that it all had the effect of making me wonder just how much an influence that Shams had on Rumi’s writings. So very informative.

The part that made me laugh was where Rumi recited the poem about being drunk (intoxicated) and he mentions

"I am so drunk
I have lost the way in
and the way out.
I have lost the earth, the moon, and the sky.
Don't put another cup of wine in my hand,
pour it in my mouth,
for I have lost the way to my mouth."

Ha Ha!

The story of Shams and Rumi is indeed very intriguing. It is said that there are "hidden masters" throughout the universe and my sense is that Shams was such a "hidden master".(In Sufism, they are called "Madzubs".)

http://www.hazrat-inayat-khan.org/ph...1=7&h2=10&h3=5

During one's lifetime, if one is fortunate, one encounters such beings and their influence is indeed life-transforming.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

During one's lifetime, if one is fortunate, one encounters such beings and their influence is indeed life-transforming.

Yes.........but one has the be ready too

[Mystic Mark]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The story of Shams and Rumi is indeed very intriguing. It is said that there are "hidden masters" throughout the universe and my sense is that Shams was such a "hidden master".(In Sufism, they are called "Madzubs".)

http://www.hazrat-inayat-khan.org/ph...1=7&h2=10&h3=5

During one's lifetime, if one is fortunate, one encounters such beings and their influence is indeed life-transforming.

I can see what you mean by “hidden master “(Madzub). I guess that the whole idea takes some getting used to. I wasn’t even aware of the fact that Rumi credited Shams with the writings of all of those poems until I read that article in your link.

[Mystic Mark]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I too recall the movie, "Jason and the Argonauts", as I love the mythology of ancient Greece. There is more depth to those myths than people suspect.

As for the "song of the Sirens" in that movie, I can't recall whether it sounded like Aum ... Aum ... Aum. However, I am very aware of the subtler-than-thoughts "nada" (sound of subtle vibrations that manifest when one is thought-free) but I don't know how to describe that in words.

I liken the allure of that "nada" to the "song of the sirens" since it pulls one out of the self and onto the "shores of destruction" but it is a very positive "destruction" in that it destroys the lower self. Since we've been talking about Rumi and Sufism, I will introduce my favorite Sufi alternative to "destruction of the ego". It's called "resurrection into God". As you can see, I love poetic and metaphorical imagery to express that which cannot easily be expressed in words.

SW

“I too recall the movie, "Jason and the Argonauts", as I love the mythology of ancient Greece. There is more depth to those myths than people suspect.”

MM

So true. Better the “Song of the Sirens” than the Serpents in Medusa’s hair. lol

SW

“As for the "song of the Sirens" in that movie, I can't recall whether it sounded like Aum ... Aum ... Aum. However, I am very aware of the subtler-than-thoughts "nada" (sound of subtle vibrations that manifest when one is thought-free) but I don't know how to describe that in words.”

MM

I’m not sure how to describe that, either. But the Hindi word “Manas” actually means Mind. Lately I’ve been experimenting with some of these new understandings for mantras. So if I had to describe the differences between some of my older understandings versus the mantra, I would say that my older understandings effect me more on an “inner level,” whereas the mantras effect me on an “outer level.”

The paradox for me is that the “outer level” feels a lot more powerful. So I’m starting to get it as to why you warned me about obtaining siddhas. lol

SW

“I liken the allure of that "nada" to the "song of the sirens" since it pulls one out of the self and onto the "shores of destruction" but it is a very positive "destruction" in that it destroys the lower self. Since we've been talking about Rumi and Sufism, I will introduce my favorite Sufi alternative to "destruction of the ego". It's called "resurrection into God". As you can see, I love poetic and metaphorical imagery to express that which cannot easily be expressed in words.”

Ha Ha! Kind of like “Ressurection on a tree.” Yeah, I’m starting to work with that one myself, a little bit. The funny part is that every time that I think that have something in Yoga figured out, it’s as if the mantra has this effect of expanding the possibilities of whatever it is I’m trying to understand.

It’s kind like the understandIng for Wu Wei (Non-Action/Action) in Taoism:

OM

O = Movement/Action
M = Non-Action (Stillness)

Then again, the sound “M” kind of has its limitations in the sense that it really works best from the “neck up.” But a lot of these other Consonants don’t have those limitations. So right now, I’m kind of in the process of re-visiting a lot of these older understandings for the Seed sounds (bijas) to find out what the intentions are for the use of the word. And that should represent the clue for how to use them.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mark

The paradox for me is that the “outer level” feels a lot more powerful. So I’m starting to get it as to why you warned me about obtaining siddhas. lol

The "outer level" can indeed become more powerful at times and, as you duly noted, that's why sages warn against the pursuit of siddhas. It is well said that "miracles" are rarely performed without a trace of ego. Miracles certainly draw crowds and that can have an obvious reinforcing impact on one's ego in a potentially problematic manner.

In the link I provided regarding the Madzubs, it implicitly warns against pursuing siddhas. " If he (the Mazdub) were to admit (or display) before humanity the power that he has, thousands of people would go after him, and he would not have one moment to live his inner life."

http://www.hazrat-inayat-khan.org/ph...1=7&h2=10&h3=5

Since this is a Christianity thread, it seems relevant to add that one can now understand why Jesus eventually withdrew from the myriads of people pursuing him in quest of cures and other miracles.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The story of Shams and Rumi is indeed very intriguing. It is said that there are "hidden masters" throughout the universe and my sense is that Shams was such a "hidden master".(In Sufism, they are called "Madzubs".)

http://www.hazrat-inayat-khan.org/ph...1=7&h2=10&h3=5

During one's lifetime, if one is fortunate, one encounters such beings and their influence is indeed life-transforming.

Originally Posted by janielee

Yes.........but one has the be ready too

Absolutely. One also has to recognize them as, more often than not, they appear to be quite ordinary or quite strange.

[Mystic Mark]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The "outer level" can indeed become more powerful at times and, as you duly noted, that's why sages warn against the pursuit of siddhas. It is well said that "miracles" are rarely performed without a trace of ego. Miracles certainly draw crowds and that can have an obvious reinforcing impact on one's ego in a potentially problematic manner.

In the link I provided regarding the Madzubs, it implicitly warns against pursuing siddhas. " If he (the Mazdub) were to admit (or display) before humanity the power that he has, thousands of people would go after him, and he would not have one moment to live his inner life."

http://www.hazrat-inayat-khan.org/ph...1=7&h2=10&h3=5

Since this is a Christianity thread, it seems relevant to add that one can now understand why Jesus eventually withdrew from the myriads of people pursuing him in quest of cures and other miracles.

The funny part is that The Hatha Yoga Pradapika refers to a Siddha Yogi as a perfected being, yet at the same time, it issues this warning ...

Don’t pursue Siddhas. lol

But I get what your saying. People can be tempted to use their siddhas to gain fortune and fame or to show off their powers because of their ego. But doing things like that can take them off off coarse and cause others to want to associate with them for the wrong reasons.

[BigJohn]

Why did Jesus in the beginning of Mark chapter 5, cast demons out of 1 or 2 people and
then put the demons in pigs which plunged into the Sea of Galilee to their death?
Why would Jesus destroy private property he did not own?
Why would Jesus have pigs put to their death?

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Why did Jesus in the beginning of Mark chapter 5, cast demons out of 1 or 2 people and
then put the demons in pigs which plunged into the Sea of Galilee to their death?
Why would Jesus destroy private property he did not own?
Why would Jesus have pigs put to their death?

Another ' Grimm. s ' Fairytale

[sky]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mark

The funny part is that The Hatha Yoga Pradapika refers to a Siddha Yogi as a perfected being, yet at the same time, it issues this warning ...

Don’t pursue Siddhas. lol

But I get what your saying. People can be tempted to use their siddhas to gain fortune and fame or to show off their powers because of their ego. But doing things like that can take them off off coarse and cause others to want to associate with them for the wrong reasons.

' The funny part is that The Hatha Yoga Pradapika refers to a Siddha Yogi as a perfected being, yet at the same time, it issues this warning ...

Don’t pursue Siddhas. lol '


Can it be pursued or is it something we already are but most haven't realised or ' Awakened ' to.


The Penny hasn't dropped......