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  #11  
Old 14-02-2017, 07:55 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Ah, so he followed Sai Baba of Shirdi...that helped.

"The three main Hindu spiritual paths - Bhakti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Karma
Yoga
- were visible in the teachings of SaiBaba. "

That explains more for me...he does not teach Raja Yoga...ok.
I'm done asking questions. Thanks a lot dattaseva.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
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  #12  
Old 16-02-2017, 05:00 PM
kralaro kralaro is online now
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I read post #10 beginning with "In the Vedas". Dattaseva, i opened the website link, so the website of your guru has put artificial halo around his face and he puts "Shri" and "Swami" in his name?
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  #13  
Old 16-02-2017, 05:11 PM
dattaseva dattaseva is offline
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If a devotee is zealous enough to do all that, doesn't automatically mean that the Swami Himself approves of it. The website is maintained by some devotees. While the knowledge is by the Swami, how it's presented is decided by the disciples who maintain the site.

Anyway, if you read the articles and have any kind of doubts about them, I'd be glad to discuss them with you as far as I can. Peace.
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  #14  
Old 16-02-2017, 06:28 PM
kralaro kralaro is online now
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Sir i appreciate your reply; except the " Peace." part. After your reply i went deeper in the website; is your guru talking about himself in 3rd person? :
Quote:
His faith in Swami does not shake even in his dreams. Swami tried His best to shake his faith in several ways.
Source: http://www.universal-spirituality.org/whoSwami.html

Also, from same source
Quote:
Swami says, "No incarnation so far got such a good number of devoted gems".
I think Krishna has much more devotees on Earth (in past and present) than him.
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  #15  
Old 17-02-2017, 04:59 AM
dattaseva dattaseva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kralaro
After your reply i went deeper in the website; is your guru talking about himself in 3rd person?

Here, the Swami is talking about Ajay, a highly accomplished disciple who was able to withstand all of the Swami's severe tests.

However, this statement can also be uttered by the Swami while referring to Himself and for this, you would need to understand the concept of a human incarnation.

One is neither God already and nor can one become God by one's effort; the unimaginable God cannot even be compared with the imaginable human being.

However, by the wish and grace of God, you can become a human incarnation, in which you will be treated as God for all practical purposes. The metallic wire after electrification can be treated as electricity for all practical purposes, since the wire gives an electric shock wherever it is touched. But the wire still remains a wire and electricity remains electricity. The wire is a chain of metallic crystals and electricity is a stream of electrons. Neither is the wire already electricity, nor does the wire ever become electricity. But the electrified wire can be treated as electricity.

The wire is the human being and electricity is the unimaginable God. The electrified wire is the human incarnation of God. Shankara says that the electrified wire and electricity can be treated as one and the same. Ramanuja says that although there is definitely a basic difference between the electricity and the wire, both are inseparable in the electrified wire. Hence, they can be treated as one and the same. Madhva says that the basic reality is that electricity and the wire are always different (Just to clarify, Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva are the three ancient preachers who propagated monism, qualified monism and dualism respectively).

All these three versions are simultaneously correct and apply in contexts of different observers. Devotees should follow the version of Shankara and should treat the human incarnation as God. The human being existing in the human incarnation, should follow the version of Madhva and should be careful in not letting the ego arise in Himself. Parashurama, a past human incarnation of God, suffered only because of this ego. The human incarnation and devotees can both take the version of Ramanuja.

Devotees should maintain the oneness between the soul and the God present in the human incarnation, since the two are inseparable in the human incarnation of God. The human being (soul) present in the human incarnation should realize that the devotees are treating Him as God only due to this inseparable aspect and that he is basically different from God.. - This is another reason why my Swami would refer to the Lord in third-person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kralaro
Also, from same sourceI think Krishna has much more devotees on Earth (in past and present) than him.

I agree with you as well. But the fact is the Swami, in this particular context, is speaking about:

1) Devotees who worship the human incarnation as God incarnate when He is alive, and

2) Those rare devotees who actually sacrifice everything in their lives to serve the human incarnation selflessly.

Such devotees are a handful in number and I am definitely not one of them.

If you look at the life of Lord Krishna, He was never referred to as God in the Mahabharata. Only when He preached the Gita did Vyasa refer to Him as 'Bhagvan'. The thing is Lord Krishna revealed Himself to only a few during His lifetime that He was God incarnate. And of those few who He showed Himself to, even fewer actually believed Him. Even Arjuna, His closest friend, believed Him for some time during the war, especially after Arjuna was shown the cosmic vision (vishwarupa). But soon after the war, doubt crept into his mind and he questioned whether what he experienced (the cosmic vision) was just an illusion.

However, once Lord Krishna left His mortal body, his fame and name knew no bounds. Same is the case with Shirdi Sai Baba. During His life, Baba was seen as a saint by some, a mad fakir by others and a fraud by many more. Only to a few deserving devotees did He reveal that He was Allah Himself. But once Baba left His body, people built hundreds of temples in His name and started worshiping Him as the Lord incarnate.

As a general rule, the human incarnation is usually not recognized for who He is until after He leaves the human body. The Swami says this is mainly because of ego and jealousy - the two main obstacles in the spiritual path.

This is what He has to say on this topic - when the elephant comes, you say that it is not an elephant. When it goes away, you doubt whether it was an elephant. Then you see its finger prints and decide that it was an elephant (Yadha Gajo Neti – Kalidasa). This is the state of Indians.

A real human incarnation or Sadguru will never worry about the number of the disciples He has. Even if a single disciple is available, He is happy. Only one in millions like Sankara, Vivekananda, Mira can reach the Lord. Diamonds are always rare. Gravel stones are in plenty. Therefore among thousands of gurus there may be only one Sadguru and among millions of disciples there may be only one true disciple. At the same time, the Satguru gives everyone who approaches Him the opportunity to participate in His mission. The naked truth in the case of God is that He has absolutely no need of your work for Him. But by participating in His mission, the soul gets purified and hence, the ultimate benefit is only for the soul.

The sacrifice of knowledge (Jnana Yajna) is very much liked by God as said in the Gita (Jnana Yajnena tenaaham…). God is very much pleased by sacrificing right knowledge in spiritual path than in materialistic path like knowledge of science. The reason is that the spiritual field is eternal and very much important for the soul. The Gita says that there is nothing equal to knowledge that purifies the soul (Nahi jnanena sadrusham) and that you can burn all past sins through the right knowledge (Sarvam Jnanaplave naiva).

The Swami also says that miracles are not true indicators of the Lord in human form. Miracles or supernatural powers can be displayed by anyone, including demons. While Lord Krishna lifted the Govardhana Hill, Ravana, the demon king in the Ramayana, lifted the bigger Mount Kailash. But only Lord Krishna could preach the Bhagvad Gita, a storehouse of infinite wisdom.

Only true knowledge and infinite compassion are the identity marks of the Lord in human form. And whether these are evident in Datta Swami or not is something that is up to you to decide, based on your intensive analysis. All I can say is this - please be patient before coming to a decision.
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  #16  
Old 17-02-2017, 06:32 AM
kralaro kralaro is online now
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Thank you.

Kralaro understood that Venu talking about Ajay. Kralaro was talking about this kind of referring to oneself in 3rd person like kralaro doing right now.

>This is another reason why my Swami would refer to the Lord in third-person.
He didn't say "Lord tried His best to shake his faith", he said "Swami tried to".. . So it's looking to me that he's talking about himself and not Lord/God.

I think: Krishna kept the hill lifted on his little finger for some days and persons under the umbrella didn't felt hunger for those days; while in Ravand's case, Ravand had started lifting Mount Kailash but then he was pinned by Shiva.

I saw in a TV serial that Ved Vyasa admitting to a mistake of his when Bhishma pointed it out. Also, in another serial, Parshuram not recognizing Ram. So i think a question can be raised that how can incarnations of God make mistake or not be omniscient. But i think you answered this question to me, like with the electricity-wire example. Thank you sir for showing me this perspective.

It was enlightening talking to you. I think i am already on a spiritual path, but if your guru can answer my questions then maybe i can converse with him. See my way of testing has been like:
Someone: I can channel Krishna. I ask him questions and he answers.
Me: Can you please get answer to my question from Krishna?
That person: Sure, what's your question?
Me: Krishna already knows my question, it's about something i read in a religious scripture, can you please get the answer from Krishna?
Then no reply from the other person or an illogical reply.
I had experiences like this with some persons on this forum. Not taking their names here cause i think then moderator may delete my post. With this kind of behavior i think the other person may be fraud / delusional, like they were planning to fool me by making up an answer but i spoiled their plan. If your guru can answer my religious question logically without me even speaking the question then i think i can try learning from him.
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  #17  
Old 17-02-2017, 04:18 PM
dattaseva dattaseva is offline
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Hahaha, your approach is indeed a good way to thwart fraudsters/delusional claims on the internet. I rarely get the chance to meet the Swami, but if I do, I'll definitely ask Him about your question.

However, I must tell you that the Swami never shows His miraculous powers unless there is some level of deservingness on the part of the person to whom the miracle is being shown.

When the Lord exposes Himself as the source of all the infinite supernatural powers, all the people will run to Him with the same speed and will sacrifice to their maximum. In such a case, you cannot differentiate the real devotee from a fraud devotee. The reason is that the supernatural power attracts all the people with equal force.

When acids are dissolved in water, they show equal strengths because water, being a highly polar solvent, attracts the hydrogen ions from all acids equally so that their extent of ionization becomes same. The strong acid cannot be differentiated from a weak acid. This is called as the leveling effect. When the same acids are dissolved in glacial acetic acid, which is a weak solvent, the acids will ionize to different extents as per their inherent nature.

When an important government official asks for some amount of money, all the merchants will run to him with equal speed and give that amount. In this case you cannot differentiate the real donor from the real greedy merchant. But when a beggar begs for some money, a real donor donates whereas a greedy person refuses. The real nature of the individuals comes out only in the case of the beggar. Similarly, when God comes in human form and exhibits super natural powers, all the people rush to Him with equal speed and show equal love for God. [Of course God cannot be fooled in this way. He exactly knows who the real devotee is and who the selfish devotee is since He is all-knowing].

Even if God recognizes the real devotee by His all-knowing power and rewards him, the other devotees will find fault with God. They will argue that even though the extent of devotion of all devotees was equal, and that the Lord showed partiality. Therefore, God in human form will not exhibit miracles and will exhibit only His inseparable special knowledge, which projects Him only as a Guru [Teacher] and not as Bhagavan [God]. Datta means God donated to the devotees in human form. His right half is Guru and the left half is Bhagavan. Only the right half is projected and the left half is hidden. Only in this case can the real devotees be filtered.

The Lord in human form will try as far as possible to avoid performing miracles. People are attracted by miracles. They approach Him and pressurize Him to do miracles for the sake of their selfishness. They will exploit the Lord for their selfish benefits. This too leads to the violation of the law of karma. There is another important reason why the Lord does not do miracles. If He did a lot of miracles then everyone would believe that He is the Lord. However if He rarely performed miracles or not performed any, then the faith of those who claim to be His devotees would be tested.

Only the real devotee will believe in Him, when the Lord does no miracles. This devotee identifies the Lord based on His essential characteristic of Divine Knowledge. He does not care for any miracles. He does not aspire for any benefit from the Lord. He does not expect the Lord to violate the law of karma for His sake and last of all he will not tolerate that the Lord should suffer for his sins. He will only focus on serving the Lord through his own efforts (sacrifice of work for the Lord) and wealth (sacrificing the fruit of work for the Lord).

If the Lord in human form performs many miracles, then it would be only too obvious to people that He is the Lord. Then they would serve Him even if their faith were not total. There would be no way of differentiating a true devotee from a pretender. The answer to a mathematical problem in an examination is never revealed. If it were revealed, then all students would score cent percent marks. There would be no way of distinguishing and rewarding the good students.

However if the Lord were to totally behave like a human being, then no one would pass the test. No one would be ever be able to identify Him. Therefore He reveals Himself partially. It is like a hint given to solve a mathematical problem. He appears as a mixture of man and God. Thus some people are able to identify Him and pass the test while others are unable to identify Him and fail the test. He behaves like God in order to attract people to Him. Then He behaves like an ordinary human being to filter out false devotees.

False human incarnations hurdles in the spiritual path; they will trap you for the reason of their own income and fame. Of course, these false incarnations are based on the will of God only. He tests your scriptural knowledge by which alone you have to identify the real human incarnation. They are just like the wrong answers present in a multiple-choice question. The same examiner, who gives the right answer, creates the wrong answers also to test the power of your discrimination. Proper discrimination results only if you digest scriptural knowledge with perfect logical analysis. Only then can you eliminate the fraud incarnations like wrong answers.

Poundraka Vasudeva was such a false incarnation, who looked like Narayana, wearing the same dress and bearing the same weapons. Krishna did not have the same dress since He wore His own special peacock feather on His head. Instead of weapons, He carried a flute. Both these are not worn by Lord Narayana. The main identification of Lord Krishna is only the Gita. The Veda says that the Lord is characterized by His own special divine knowledge, which cannot be preached by any other human being in that generation (Satyam, Jnanam…,Prajnanam Brahma).

The fraud incarnations are like artificial diamonds, which resemble the original diamond in many properties. The artificial diamonds glitter with seven colors just like the original diamond. But, the refractive index of the original diamond is very high and a scientist alone can identify it. The false incarnations also preach knowledge. But the power of the knowledge of the real incarnation is very very high. You, aided with your intellectual logical faculty (Buddhi), can only be convinced and freed from all doubts by such special divine knowledge (Prajnanam…).

That said, I will ask the Swami about your question whenever it's possible and get back to you with His reply.
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  #18  
Old 18-02-2017, 04:09 AM
dattaseva dattaseva is offline
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@Kralaro - When I thought about your way to test the claims of people who claim to be channeling Krishna, etc., I kind of realized that it's not fool-proof. I haven't yet asked my Swami about your question, but before I do, I just wanted to let you know how your test can fail in some cases.

Sure, your test is a good way to identify between fraudsters with absolutely no spiritual prowess and people with delusional claims. But some people are adept at black magic while some others attain supernatural powers by rigid penance for their own selfish ends. If you ask such people, they may be able to find your question by literally reading your mind (or may also be able use the help of a malevolent spirit to look into your mind and find out what your question is).

Many such people also have a fairly decent grasp on spiritual knowledge. If your question were easy enough for such a person to answer, then you would end up thinking that he/she is actually channeling Krishna or what not. So your method of testing, in some cases, can be extremely dangerous.

And while some demonic entities can preach a little bit of knowledge well enough, they will be extremely poor at clearing all your doubts. Like my Swami says, true knowledge leads to incredible bliss and destruction of all illusions. The Veda says that the knowledge of real human incarnation is true and infinite (Satyam Jnanam Anantam) and is special, which is not possible for others (Prajnanam Brahma). God always speaks the truth, which is harsh and is not liked by you in general. Other preachers modify the truth to please you and to get some benefit from you. Only God has guts to speak the truth, which alone can save you, because God is not bothered about anybody’s favour or displeasure. It is special because, the way of explanation is not possible for any soul in the world.

All the human incarnations have a single common point, which is the spiritual guidance given to human beings, since that is the most important program. Other factors like the physical form, dress, language, culture and composition of the three qualities in them, are not important and this variation occurs, as you can see in Rama, Krishna, Jesus and Buddha. Therefore, God is represented by this common characteristic of true spiritual knowledge alone (Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma, Prajnanam Brahma—Veda; Jnanitvatmaiva—Gita).
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  #19  
Old 18-02-2017, 11:53 AM
kralaro kralaro is online now
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Read both the replies.

Quote:
I rarely get the chance to meet the Swami, but if I do, I'll definitely ask Him about your question.
Thanks man. Seeing that you willing to ask him for me, i used the contact form on the website from my side.
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  #20  
Old 18-02-2017, 03:08 PM
urbanzennist urbanzennist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dattaseva
The mentality to attract other souls is egoism. The mentality to be attracted to God is divinity. When you never aspire to attract any soul, you will attract all the souls by the grace of God. When you seek fame, you will be defamed as in the case of demons (whose stories are mentioned in ancient Hindu scriptures).

The idea that wanting to attract others to you is egoism rings true with Buddhism. However, that others will come to you when you don't aspire to bring others to you is not necessarily true. Although one's disposition becomes such that one looks out for others and takes care of them, one may still walk alone... however, having this connection with divinity prevents even these lonesome walks from being "lonely".
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