Why ?

[sky]

Well know Guru's are mostly male, I was wondering why....

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Well know Guru's are mostly male, I was wondering why....

Namaste.

It is because of the Brahmin Caste and their attitudes towards females. You'll also notice that most (not all) Gurus, both contemporary and historical have been born into a Brahmin family because it guarantees them immediate 'social respect' among the populace.

India is still a rather patriarchal, male-dominated society (evidenced by the fact that females still have to provide a substantial 'dowry' to be married) and a female child is seen as a burden on society, because they are not as strong or productive as a male...and heaven forbid...they bleed every month.

Menstrual blood is seen as being putrid...worse than the feet of a shudra (untouchable) and besides, according to Hindu Dharma, it is a woman's place to 'have babies' and not 'become gurus'....there have been some exceptions to the rule though and Indian society is slowly changing in regards, but it's why spiritual gurus are mostly men...added to which, there are more bands and granthis (psychic knots) for kundalini to navigate in a woman than in a man...supposedly.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste.

It is because of the Brahmin Caste and their attitudes towards females. You'll also notice that most (not all) Gurus, both contemporary and historical have been born into a Brahmin family because it guarantees them immediate 'social respect' among the populace.

India is still a rather patriarchal, male-dominated society (evidenced by the fact that females still have to provide a substantial 'dowry' to be married) and a female child is seen as a burden on society, because they are not as strong or productive as a male...and heaven forbid...they bleed every month.

Menstrual blood is seen as being putrid...worse than the feet of a shudra (untouchable) and besides, according to Hindu Dharma, it is a woman's place to 'have babies' and not 'become gurus'....there have been some exceptions to the rule though and Indian society is slowly changing in regards, but it's why spiritual gurus are mostly men...added to which, there are more bands and granthis (psychic knots) for kundalini to navigate in a woman than in a man...supposedly.

Om Namah Shivaya

Thanks SD interesting....
So what are these guru's doing about this backward mentality, do they speak out and try to change attitudes of their followers, or does it suit them ( some not all ) to treat women as below them ?
Your the expert on Hinduism, enlighten me

I would have thought that spiritual leaders/ teachers etc: would have gone past the gender label and see all as equal, not so it seems because we see this inequality in most religions...
,

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Thanks SD interesting....
So what are these guru's doing about this backward mentality, do they speak out and try to change attitudes of their followers, or does it suit them ( some not all ) to treat women as below them ?
Your the expert on Hinduism, enlighten me

I would have thought that spiritual leaders/ teachers etc: would have gone past the gender label and see all as equal, not so it seems because we see this inequality in most religions...
,

It's difficult to fight thousands of years of tradition within the space of half a century and of course, we know that absolute Brahman is genderless...we know that we are not this (female) body and neither does the opposite apply...yes, so I could set myself up as a 'guru' tomorrow knowing this within myself, but that doesn't mean those who are totally ignorant of the fact are going to know it...and there are more of them out there than us.

See, there are also many 'Gurus' who the majority in India or us in the west don't even know about, because they were not popularised by the media...or they lived before the time when such media popularisation was 'in vogue'...and they have basically been resigned to the annals of oblivion now...like Allama Prabhu, Basavanna and even those like Patanjali and Adi Shankara are fading because personages like Swami Vivekananda, Ramana Maharishi, Yogananda etc have video footage existing of themselves which proved they existed!

When people think of 'Gurus', they tend to think of Ramana, Buddha, Jesus, Ramakrishna, Aurobindo, Swami Sivananda, Ramakrishna...all male and all 'popularised through rhetoric' and so the trend continues...and it self-perpetuates...and meanwhile, if a Tamil Siddhar doesn't get noticed, if the Kashmir Shaivites don't get much mention, if people associate 'guru' with personages like 'Srila Prabhupada' because that is all they know...what chance does a woman have?

I was thinking about doing the whole 'kundalini yoga' thing but Nirmala Devi beat me to it and that isn't how I would go about teaching it...but she is famous now and I am not...ah well.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sky]

Thanks DS... I have never heard of the names you posted ( pre-internet ones ) but Nirvala Divi I have. She has an interesting background and if I'm right was brought up in a Christian home, she seems to have helped people a lot and was very much loved.
Yes she is on my next ( must read list ) now you have reminded me of her, , recommend a book please...

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Thanks DS... I have never heard of the names you posted ( pre-internet ones ) but Nirvala Divi I have. She has an interesting background and if I'm right was brought up in a Christian home, she seems to have helped people a lot and was very much loved.
Yes she is on my next ( must read list ) now you have reminded me of her, , recommend a book please...

You know, I have seen videos of her giving 'Shaktipat' (energy transmission) to people...all of this 'cool breeze' stuff...all of her teachings which are rather cult-indoctrinating (to me anyway) despite the fact that other/many people love her, but I couldn't get through a single book of hers, unfortunately...you could try "The Divine Cool Breeze" which I had to put down after reading about a quarter of it.

When one has been totally spoiled by 'The Serpent Power' by Arthur Avalon, 'Kundalini and the Evolution of Man' by Pundit Gopi Krishna, 'The Kundalini Tantra' by Swami Satyananda Sarasvati, the 'Hatha Yoga Pridipika' by Swami Svatmarama and the 'Pancatattva secret ritual', the 'Tibetan Mahanirvana Tantras' and 'Soundarya Lahari' by Adi Shankaracharya, it's hard to read anything that Nirmala Devi writes, because it's like a university graduate trying to read a kindergarten book...'see Spot run...run, Spot, run'...meh.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

You know, I have seen videos of her giving 'Shaktipat' (energy transmission) to people...all of this 'cool breeze' stuff...all of her teachings which are rather cult-indoctrinating (to me anyway) despite the fact that other/many people love her, but I couldn't get through a single book of hers, unfortunately...you could try "The Divine Cool Breeze" which I had to put down after reading about a quarter of it.

When one has been totally spoiled by 'The Serpent Power' by Arthur Avalon, 'Kundalini and the Evolution of Man' by Pundit Gopi Krishna, 'The Kundalini Tantra' by Swami Satyananda Sarasvati, the 'Hatha Yoga Pridipika' by Swami Svatmarama and the 'Pancatattva secret ritual', the 'Tibetan Mahanirvana Tantras' and 'Soundarya Lahari' by Adi Shankaracharya, it's hard to read anything that Nirmala Devi writes, because it's like a university graduate trying to read a kindergarten book...'see Spot run...run, Spot, run'...meh.

Om Namah Shivaya

Thanks, just got it for free so if it's rubbish I haven't wasted my pennies.
I'm just half way through ' I am that ' which I am enjoying, read it many years ago but I didn't appreciate it then, now the time is right I do.

Btw, I loved Spot

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Thanks, just got it for free so if it's rubbish I haven't wasted my pennies.
I'm just half way through ' I am that ' which I am enjoying, read it many years ago but I didn't appreciate it then, now the time is right I do.

Btw, I loved Spot

So many authors have written a book with the title; "I am That" so which one are you reading?

At the moment, I am still trying to learn the full Shiva Tandava Stotram...and it's annoying because I cannot get past verse 5...if you hear it, you can understand why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBKmQEPNzI

I just don't have the brain capacity that Ravana did, it seems. LOL

Apart from that, I'm still reading about the hidden esoteric traditions of Balinese Hindus:

https://www.amazon.com/Bali-Fred-B-E.../dp/0804840989

...and studying the origins of the My Son temple in Vietnam...the oldest Shiva temple on earth...and the lost/extinct civilisation of Champa....trying to translate Sanskrit into Cham and vice-versa to find out what happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_S%C6%A1n

Keeps me busy.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

So many authors have written a book with the title; "I am That" so which one are you reading?

At the moment, I am still trying to learn the full Shiva Tandava Stotram...and it's annoying because I cannot get past verse 5...if you hear it, you can understand why:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMBKmQEPNzI[/ukirl]

I just don't have the brain capacity that Ravana did, it seems. LOL

Apart from that, I'm still reading about the hidden esoteric traditions of Balinese Hindus:

https://www.amazon.com/Bali-Fred-B-E.../dp/0804840989

...and studying the origins of the My Son temple in Vietnam...the oldest Shiva temple on earth...and the lost/extinct civilisation of Champa....trying to translate Sanskrit into Cham and vice-versa to find out what happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_S%C6%A1n

Keeps me busy.

Om Namah Shivaya

Sorry, NM I am that.
The problem with books is... I don't want to do anything else once I get into reading, everything else goes to pot...
Must do some Qigong, housework, shopping , in that order, today, then I can read tonight... yipeeeeeee.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Sorry, NM I am that.
The problem with books is... I don't want to do anything else once I get into reading, everything else goes to pot...
Must do some Qigong, housework, shopping , in that order, today, then I can read tonight... yipeeeeeee.

It's past 8pm here and I have to have my bath, do Shiva puja (prayer), do some belly dancing...and then see if I can find any more hidden brahmi script codes within archaeological inscriptions of the ancestors of the Khmer empire, meanwhile, tackling verse 6 of the Thandavam and trying to put it into practice...oh, if only I could dance like Colleena Shakti...but my body is too old for that now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkVI_XlZs4k

Once I start looking into the ancient underwater city of Dwarka, studying the course of the mythical Sarasvati river prior to the last ice-age or tracing the geneaology of the sons of Manu across the globe from the Indus plains, everything goes to pot for me and it's 'bye Shivani, see ya on the other side of eternity'.

It's been lovely having this chat with you, Sky...very refreshing indeed.

Om Namah Shivaya