Boundaries

[Sapphirez]

hi Rachella, well I enjoyed reading your story, especially your second lengthy post for some reason. I can relate to both sides and just think that more honesty and openness is the best policy. but I can not claim to have an active social life nor do I want one. I want an ideal friend that is very honest with me too and will accept me unconditionally. but that may not exist. sometimes I think what is the point then and I'd rather spend time by myself, but I have a baby now and a fiance anyway which I didn't do til after I was in my 30s. enough about me though, it's just that I feel bad for your friends that are wanting to spend time with you and aren't getting the full story and how you have struggled with your decisions and aren't just making or doing them carelessly.

and also for you because you deserve to have more independence and shouldn't be worried about being summoned into nonsense by the clingy friend or barraged by the bossy one. I also feel they should keep their friendship a higher priority than they had or rekindle it. I do think you should let them know you've had issues with friendships and boundaries and maybe add that you feel too invested and personally attached in the situations so they don't take it personally or too sensitively and realize that you just don't have the energy or mindset to take on as much mental activity and interaction as they requested because you care so much you can't be bothered to care that much.. don't say that last part lol but hopefully you know what I mean because hopefully I know what you mean. maybe I don't but different parts of your story and theirs spoke to me and they may be unaware of how their everyday behavior and attitudes are adversely effecting you when friendships should be more beneficial.

wonder how it's going now that it's a week later.. also if you care to share I'm curious what the hobby is

[Native spirit]

I am a counsellor so boundries are very important. I am a people watcher also so I can see what they are like before I call them friends,
my friends I have had since childhood.i can rely on them and vice versa.
people who treat you differently to how you treat them are not worthy to be called a friend. we all have needy people in our lives.it is up to us to cut ties with them.
Its better to have one friend who you can rely on than a few so called friends.you need to set your own boundries or people will walk all over you.the best saying I follow by is Friends are the family you choose for yourself.


Namaste

[Rachella]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

hi Rachella, well I enjoyed reading your story, especially your second lengthy post for some reason. I can relate to both sides and just think that more honesty and openness is the best policy. but I can not claim to have an active social life nor do I want one. I want an ideal friend that is very honest with me too and will accept me unconditionally. but that may not exist. sometimes I think what is the point then and I'd rather spend time by myself, but I have a baby now and a fiance anyway which I didn't do til after I was in my 30s. enough about me though, it's just that I feel bad for your friends that are wanting to spend time with you and aren't getting the full story and how you have struggled with your decisions and aren't just making or doing them carelessly.

and also for you because you deserve to have more independence and shouldn't be worried about being summoned into nonsense by the clingy friend or barraged by the bossy one. I also feel they should keep their friendship a higher priority than they had or rekindle it. I do think you should let them know you've had issues with friendships and boundaries and maybe add that you feel too invested and personally attached in the situations so they don't take it personally or too sensitively and realize that you just don't have the energy or mindset to take on as much mental activity and interaction as they requested because you care so much you can't be bothered to care that much.. don't say that last part lol but hopefully you know what I mean because hopefully I know what you mean. maybe I don't but different parts of your story and theirs spoke to me and they may be unaware of how their everyday behavior and attitudes are adversely effecting you when friendships should be more beneficial.

wonder how it's going now that it's a week later.. also if you care to share I'm curious what the hobby is

Thanks Sapphirez for reading and replying. I do think the main issue lies with my emotional 'impairment'. It's like I let people in, I open the door wide, and then once they're in, sitting comfy with their shoes off, I suddenly realise I want them out... LOL, more or less.

At the moment I am not talking with them; one of them (the one in denial) messaged me to know how I am doing and I replied politely. After this, she responded with a long detailed update to her own troubles and how she is trying to overcome them, to which I responded something like: well done, talk to you soon.
I still feel guilty because one of them has health issues, at the same time the thought of being with them overwhelms me. For the moment I am leaving things as they are, but I have also started watching myself carefully as I interact with others.

Like you, I currently have almost no social life (I don't even have a partner or kids.) It's been like that for the last two years and half. I have friends but they live in other cities; the connections I have left where I live are very few. I am meeting new people though, and I also moved to a new flat share. Needless to say, after a couple of weeks I feel already close to one of the flatmates, but I am trying to keep it at a mundane chat when we bump into each other in the kitchen. So, no suggestions of going out, of cooking dinner together or sharing whatever.
I am trying to pay attention to the way I feel, to the things I say and think during interactions with others.
It is interesting that I never had issues in finding company or even a boyfriend until the last few years. I think loneliness is actually a blessing, it makes you look at yourself without distractions.
(Btw, our hobby is writing)

[Rachella]

Originally Posted by Native spirit

I am a people watcher also so I can see what they are like before I call them friends,
my friends I have had since childhood.


Namaste

Dear Native Spirit, thanks for your response. I think my main issue is precisely this bit. I need to pay more attention to the people with whom this happens and the dynamics.

[Sapphirez]

Originally Posted by Rachella

Thanks Sapphirez for reading and replying. I do think the main issue lies with my emotional 'impairment'. It's like I let people in, I open the door wide, and then once they're in, sitting comfy with their shoes off, I suddenly realise I want them out... LOL, more or less.

At the moment I am not talking with them; one of them (the one in denial) messaged me to know how I am doing and I replied politely. After this, she responded with a long detailed update to her own troubles and how she is trying to overcome them, to which I responded something like: well done, talk to you soon.
I still feel guilty because one of them has health issues, at the same time the thought of being with them overwhelms me. For the moment I am leaving things as they are, but I have also started watching myself carefully as I interact with others.

Like you, I currently have almost no social life (I don't even have a partner or kids.) It's been like that for the last two years and half. I have friends but they live in other cities; the connections I have left where I live are very few. I am meeting new people though, and I also moved to a new flat share. Needless to say, after a couple of weeks I feel already close to one of the flatmates, but I am trying to keep it at a mundane chat when we bump into each other in the kitchen. So, no suggestions of going out, of cooking dinner together or sharing whatever.
I am trying to pay attention to the way I feel, to the things I say and think during interactions with others.
It is interesting that I never had issues in finding company or even a boyfriend until the last few years. I think loneliness is actually a blessing, it makes you look at yourself without distractions.
(Btw, our hobby is writing)

oh that is interesting, how precisely is your hobby together writing? like what does one of your meetups, or did they, entail? I wonder how you all met to begin with and became friends or how the friendships grew..

from what you said last it seems pretty clear that you don't value them or their friendships enough to justify having them in your life. and that is a very tough situation obviously for all, and perhaps one of the original human quandaries or conundrums. because I have imagined a perfect world or reality where humans are all healthy and properly functioning and the world is pure, yet there could potentially always be issues of heart strings being tugged in various directions. and for one thing, we simply cannot be serious friends and prominent parts of life for the entire rest of the population.. so where do we draw the line? how do or can we do this? is it fair for us to say we don't deem someone else worthy of our time or we just don't care that much? but wouldn't it be impossible not to at some point somehow?


[warning disclaimer this paragraph is mostly rant/vent about me & my life though kind of vague, sorry if leaving it in is a mistake]
for me, well I have alienated a lot of family and friends through the years. just had a bad thing happen this evening actually and I am sick of myself and stressing other people yet at the same time I don't think my perhaps peculiar and unreasonable exhausting requests are that hard to honor.. anyways, I live in a state now where none of my family lives and the only others here are my fiance's mother and stepfather.. with the rest of his family about 5 hours away. My mom was just visiting but she left to stay at a motel a day early.. and it's eating at me but while I want to take all the blame and admit I have some messed up issues and demands, I want to think it's not all my fault and she didn't have to do that especially since I apologized.. but anyways I told my fiance who didn't want her to go either that he could take the baby (who just turned one) to hang out with her tomorrow since she has a late flight. anyways sorry I deleted when I started talking about the events that just happened at the beginning of this paragraph but was inclined to include it now though I shouldn't. My point I guess is that besides being a person who has been abandoned or worse by people over and over, I can also relate to your end where you don't really want any and all people in your life.. and I wish I didn't even have to deal with the few people I do now. I know that's not your situation but just saying that there's solace in solitude.. yet I want so badly for people to genuinely want and enjoy me in their lives. but I am not willing to sacrifice the hangups and alternatively the important valid standards or desires I have learned to have. part of me is irrational (perhaps lol but perhaps severely) so I guess that rationalizes people not taking me seriously for the things which are actually legitimate and they are just ignorant about, even willfully so. I am so sorry I've used your thread to talk so much about myself, I will stop now but won't delete it just in case there is anything that is meant to be in here..


So I guess I want to know if you are really just kind of done with these friends as it is now seeming more and more clearly. I mean, surely there was stuff to be gained from the friendships and interactions, even besides your realizing more about your boundaries or whatever. are you uninterested in trying to salvage any of the friendship? I'm from the U.S. so your flatmate situation is a little foreign to me, does that just mean roommates, like how did you end up living with new people and who are they?
that is funny it's been two and a half years for you having no social life cuz I just moved here in June 2016 so that is almost exactly 2 and a half years lol. that is cool about you trying to pay attention to how you feel and what you think within your interactions. what have you come up with so far?


I mean if we get down to the heart of who your friends can be, I do think that all people are divine godly wonderful boundless creations .. so it's tough you can say nah I'll pass on one lol. but we also know that life is full of circumstances and synchronicities and all that. which we must wonder why certain people even if we don't desire them have wound up in our lives.. or why we don't care for them to stay. you know I loved having a fiance and that seemingly unconditional love and adoration but it doesn't exactly turn out like that at least not for me. and I blame a lot of it on me not following my destined directions and independence. and I know I need to work on myself and hopefully as they say the pieces around you fall into place better as they should.. part of me still believes the everything happens for a reason adage and all the bad things that plague me and have put me where I am (I actually wouldn't have the daughter- and fiance whether we're gonna really be together or not- if my mom hadn't kicked me out of her house, and I was in my 30s already when it happened for the last time eek so yeah.. I don't think I mentioned in my first post a terrible social & general anxiety has kept me antisocial for the mostpart through the years, and been my main problem, and I used to drink alcohol just to hang out with anyone, and then I quit for I think it'd been 3 and a half years, until tonight I drank some tequila) anywayssss *sigh* I wonder now how to like and love myself more so others can including my daughter and I regret becoming what I have but I also am proud of a lot that I've become, believe, and have learned and can prove, which most people will not care about the evidence anyways.. but I have found some very important things. and all of this wouldn't have happened hadn't I have been a recluse and all that darkness and issues in my past, and present, but I need to get back to myself better. and since I am not supposed to be talking about me again oops sorry!!! I must say that like you want to keep to yourself more or not share your energy and time and space with things that are not jiving with you, sometimes we do need that seemingly selfishness to grow and thrive the most. and I personally believe that it's important to be honest and we may not be able to be 100% honest 100% of the time, but a lot of the time people choose to not be honest, they are not sparing a person but rather cheating them out of important information. then I guess it just becomes a matter of presenting information in constructive enough ways where people can look past the hurt and rejection and see a greater and worthwhile picture even if it is painful. I mean a lot of the time the biggest hurt is not knowing anyway right? if someone didn't want to be my friend I'd want to know as much detail as possible. and then we can learn about ourselves and other individuals, and others as a whole possibly.

and ok since I have already said tmi, I will say that for your one having health issues, if she stops eating or consuming or using even on her skin or in her air/atmosphere around her, anything that has deviated too far from nature or is artificial or overly processed in bad ways, and starts consuming and incorporating more nature and what is natural to humans, any health issues can disappear. most people don't know this simple (yet seemingly complicated) truth and have lived so confused but it is one of the best secrets, that I try to share with everyone lol and most hate me for it. but I have been sick myself since childhood and sought solutions and after so many years I finally know and now just need to get the courage to apply them to myself more. then I'll be able to deal with others better lol.. well gosh please forgive me for going on as I did. it's a bad habit and this event with my mom just happened some hours ago so I've been stuck in a state besides the drinking, which I limited myself to a couple ounces of tequila only but I haven't drank in years and hopefully won't again. I mean I planned to never do it again. I do think it is more poison than panacea, but I mostly just wanted to see how it'd work to suppress my brain and stuff from working lol so I could pretend to get a little peace like I used to with it. I know so many better ways though and just need to make permanent changes for the better. this has nothing to do with your situation and you I am sorry. but if at least one word becomes meaningful to you or I am a bad example that proves your current stance and situation then good lol sorry again

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Rachella

At this point in time, I start to question my "good heart" and see more my "want of being wanted" which is messing up everything.
How do you set boundaries? What are they? How can I set them in a healthy way, without breaking a friendship abruptly? Many times in my life I have had to run away in confusion, leaving the other person more confused than me. I don't want to do that anymore.
I often dream of choking up and I think I finally realised what it means.
Thank you for reading through all the blabbering, and thank you to those who will want to share pearls of wisdom.

We sound very similar.

Realistically everyone would act the same as you or I towards friends - why would you give any less?

Other people are less in touch with the hows & whys of their actions, something is of benefit to them therefore they see it as a positive - its the story of their life & you are a co-star.

Many people don't comprehend that we are each others co-star so you fulfil your part & thats that, at times there is no malice involved particularly but let's be honest they show a smidge of ignorance.

You observing a pattern is your willingness to learn & grow - as is this post.

Wrestle with the things that you will or won't accept & go from there. I know personally that it's hard to not run with the happiness high that friendship brings but you do yourself no favours by not rationing it out.

Don't forget that everything is in motion so your both different people after a month or two - at least in theory

If their life is circular, same old problems & opinions no matter what you contribute it might simply be emotional boredom on your part.

My brother in law is a nice enough guy but he always starts to insist on being my sole focus - after a few weeks of trying to softly point out that I have a wife who deserves my time also I have to cut him off because he simply doesn't see it.

[Rachella]

[quote=

from what you said last it seems pretty clear that you don't value them or their friendships enough to justify having them in your life. [/QUOTE]

No, this is probably what it sounds to you, but it's not true at all. When a friend makes a step backwards because they are feeling tired/overwhelmed/invaded in their personal space, it doesn't mean they don't value you, it means they value themselves.

[Rachella]

Originally Posted by Raziel

We sound very similar.

Realistically everyone would act the same as you or I towards friends - why would you give any less?

Other people are less in touch with the hows & whys of their actions, something is of benefit to them therefore they see it as a positive - its the story of their life & you are a co-star.

Many people don't comprehend that we are each others co-star so you fulfil your part & thats that, at times there is no malice involved particularly but let's be honest they show a smidge of ignorance.

You observing a pattern is your willingness to learn & grow - as is this post.

Wrestle with the things that you will or won't accept & go from there. I know personally that it's hard to not run with the happiness high that friendship brings but you do yourself no favours by not rationing it out.

Don't forget that everything is in motion so your both different people after a month or two - at least in theory

If their life is circular, same old problems & opinions no matter what you contribute it might simply be emotional boredom on your part.

My brother in law is a nice enough guy but he always starts to insist on being my sole focus - after a few weeks of trying to softly point out that I have a wife who deserves my time also I have to cut him off because he simply doesn't see it.

Oh thanks. This means a lot. I don't know exactly why some people aim to be my sole focus. Hope to grow and learn, as you said

[Jack of Spades]

Originally Posted by Rachella

How do you set boundaries? What are they? How can I set them in a healthy way, without breaking a friendship abruptly?

Well technically it's fairly simple. I just inform the other person about a line they are about to cross and tell them that I don't want to cross it. The hard part is neutralizing the complex emotional impacts that come after.

Some practical tips:

1.) Be as specific and give as practical example as possible.
Don't say "I hate it when you are being selfish" that's too vague, it can mean anything, the other person doesn't know what you exactly mean and will only get defensive. It can't be pinpointed into anything specific.
Say instead something like "I think you should bring your own drinks when you come over" it's specific, practical and demonstrable. Just a random example for demonstration purposes.

2.) Be consistent.
Don't ask for contradictory things. Once you bring a boundary up, don't back away from it or change your mind right away. Lots of people are fine with their friends having boundaries, but if the boundaries you ask them to respect keep changing all the time, it comes off as manipulative. Set the rules and stick to them, even if they are not 100% perfect.

3.) Don't rub it in.
People who have the capability to respect your boundaries, don't need to have the point hammered home. They'll get it. The situation is awkward and embarrassing enough even with a light touch. Just say it, make sure it was understood and then drop it and expect the other person to know it from that moment on.

4.) Some people are impossible cases
If someone refuses to get it after few attempts, they're not going to get it. It's not your fault. Time to run.

5.) Keep reminding yourself that you're worthy of respect
Wanting to have your own space, wanting to have boundaries, wanting to save some of your energy etc. is all ok. It doesn't mean you're being difficult, it doesn't mean you're being selfish.

6.) Once you get started, it gets better
Once you learn to be comfortable with having boundaries and expecting your friends to respect them, you start radiating healthy self-respect and will much more likely start attracting different kind of company and you will also feel more at home with people who are the same way. With such people, the boundary - thing is a sideshow that doesn't need to be mentioned often, because they just get it, most of the time they get it without it being specifically mentioned.

This is one of the mysteries of life. First we gotta make a huge effort to learn something, and once we figure it out, then on the other side, we very rarely need it. It's the same thing as "if you want peace, prepare for war". If you're prepared to defend your boundaries, you don't need to defend them as often, because many people will sense the strength and don't even try crossing them.

[Rachella]

Originally Posted by Jack of Spades

Well technically it's fairly simple. I just inform the other person about a line they are about to cross and tell them that I don't want to cross it. The hard part is neutralizing the complex emotional impacts that come after.

Some practical tips:

1.) Be as specific and give as practical example as possible.
Don't say "I hate it when you are being selfish" that's too vague, it can mean anything, the other person doesn't know what you exactly mean and will only get defensive. It can't be pinpointed into anything specific.
Say instead something like "I think you should bring your own drinks when you come over" it's specific, practical and demonstrable. Just a random example for demonstration purposes.

2.) Be consistent.
Don't ask for contradictory things. Once you bring a boundary up, don't back away from it or change your mind right away. Lots of people are fine with their friends having boundaries, but if the boundaries you ask them to respect keep changing all the time, it comes off as manipulative. Set the rules and stick to them, even if they are not 100% perfect.

3.) Don't rub it in.
People who have the capability to respect your boundaries, don't need to have the point hammered home. They'll get it. The situation is awkward and embarrassing enough even with a light touch. Just say it, make sure it was understood and then drop it and expect the other person to know it from that moment on.

4.) Some people are impossible cases
If someone refuses to get it after few attempts, they're not going to get it. It's not your fault. Time to run.

5.) Keep reminding yourself that you're worthy of respect
Wanting to have your own space, wanting to have boundaries, wanting to save some of your energy etc. is all ok. It doesn't mean you're being difficult, it doesn't mean you're being selfish.

6.) Once you get started, it gets better
Once you learn to be comfortable with having boundaries and expecting your friends to respect them, you start radiating healthy self-respect and will much more likely start attracting different kind of company and you will also feel more at home with people who are the same way. With such people, the boundary - thing is a sideshow that doesn't need to be mentioned often, because they just get it, most of the time they get it without it being specifically mentioned.

This is one of the mysteries of life. First we gotta make a huge effort to learn something, and once we figure it out, then on the other side, we very rarely need it. It's the same thing as "if you want peace, prepare for war". If you're prepared to defend your boundaries, you don't need to defend them as often, because many people will sense the strength and don't even try crossing them.

I missed this post, it's actually great the way you put it! More than anything, I need to be consistent. Now that I am more aware of this issue, I am trying to look at friends with whom I have always gotten along, they're the friends with healthy boundaries. That is, they may answer a text hours or days later, if they're busy, or they're capable to say "no" when it's "no". It is true, this kind of people shine with self respect.
Thanks so much