No-Thing

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by running

god is not a person, place, or thing. experienced as bliss and silence.

but i agree with shivani devi that it can manifest as a being and being in contact with that, her or him depending upon the manifestation can bring us to it.

for me its been mostly about bliss and silence and diving deeper into that. although i have expereinces with beings at times that bring me deeper into that. and their presence is simply amazing.

Yes my friend...to each, their own.

I live in a backwater, redneck suburb of Wollongong near Sydney, Australia.

My local shopping mall (about 500 meters away) just has the basics...a supermarket, greengrocery store, medical centre, hairdressers, clothing store and coffee shop...not much.

A fortnight ago, a homewares store opened up in the mall selling bohemian decorator items which looked like they came out of a 1960's love-in, but not much else...nothing that I was interested in anyway.

Then, two days ago, I walked by that shop and was stopped dead in my tracks! Hanging up on the back wall of the shop was this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...s12iMxKtkxAzGK

It was a very beautiful Shiva Nataraja wall hanging... brightly painted and with very fine detail work...my chin was hitting the floor.

By this stage, my mother was about 50ft in front of me, yelling back to me...."hurry up! What is the matter? Why did you stop? get a move on! You are wasting time.."

..but at that very moment, I had all the time in the world.

Lord Shiva had just made His presence known to me again and I also realized that this would be something that nobody else would ever be able to understand.

I told mum to go on ahead and I would meet her in Aldi in five minutes...I went into the homewares shop and asked if the Nataraja wall hanging was for sale and how much it was...it was for sale at $20.

I didn't buy it on the spot because my mother would ask me what I bought and I wouldn't be able to show her or tell her because she vehemently opposes such things.. Religious iconography offends her to her very core and I am getting too old and set in my ways now to handle the drama of her continual displays of offense at anything she finds uncomfortably displeasing.

So now, she is taking a nap... and while she does, I'm going to sneak out and rendezvous with a certain Hindu Deity...then sneak back in with a wall hanging as if I were purchasing illegal contraband...however, even illegal contraband would be more acceptable to my family. LOL

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes my friend...to each, their own.

I live in a backwater, redneck suburb of Wollongong near Sydney, Australia.

My local shopping mall (about 500 meters away) just has the basics...a supermarket, greengrocery store, medical centre, hairdressers, clothing store and coffee shop...not much.

A fortnight ago, a homewares store opened up in the mall selling bohemian decorator items which looked like they came out of a 1960's love-in, but not much else...nothing that I was interested in anyway.

Then, two days ago, I walked by that shop and was stopped dead in my tracks! Hanging up on the back wall of the shop was this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...s12iMxKtkxAzGK

It was a very beautiful Shiva Nataraja wall hanging... brightly painted and with very fine detail work...my chin was hitting the floor.

By this stage, my mother was about 50ft in front of me, yelling back to me...."hurry up! What is the matter? Why did you stop? get a move on! You are wasting time.."

..but at that very moment, I had all the time in the world.

Lord Shiva had just made His presence known to me again and I also realized that this would be something that nobody else would ever be able to understand.

I told mum to go on ahead and I would meet her in Aldi in five minutes...I went into the homewares shop and asked if the Nataraja wall hanging was for sale and how much it was...it was for sale at $20.

I didn't buy it on the spot because my mother would ask me what I bought and I wouldn't be able to show her or tell her because she vehemently opposes such things.. Religious iconography offends her to her very core and I am getting too old and set in my ways now to handle the drama of her continual displays of offense at anything she finds uncomfortably displeasing.

So now, she is taking a nap... and while she does, I'm going to sneak out and rendezvous with a certain Hindu Deity...then sneak back in with a wall hanging as if I were purchasing illegal contraband...however, even illegal contraband would be more acceptable to my family. LOL

***

Bravo! Victory!

***

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

In my belief, God can be an entity or an object, but is in no way confined to or defined by that concept!

Whatever representation of the Divine Consciousness resonates with me personally (Mahadeva), is the conduit through which transcendence can be actualised. I understand that saying "God is not a thing/being" also places human limitations, restrictions and conditions upon an omnipotent presence...in that God can be a thing IF God wanted to appear as such. In Hinduism, this is called Ishwara (Easwara) or the Ishta Dewata.

As for "nothingness"...I prefer the term "everything-ness" or even the Buddhist term Tathātā or Such-ness, where everything just is because it is and for no other reason. The terms "nothingness" and "void" just sound too cold, impersonal and off-putting for me personally and would not be conducive with a motive for starting a spiritual practice....especially for a newbie or anybody who has problems doing something just for the sake of doing it..because that usually comes as the result of meditation, rather than being a necessary prerequisite for it.

However, there are many ways of approaching the crux of the Eternal...from Vedanta, to Bhakti Yoga to the Sāṃkhya schools of thought (which I personally subscribe to):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya

The Sāṃkhya school is a strongly dualist one and the main proponent of it was Patanjali who codified Yoga into His Yoga Sutras/Aphorisms which propounded the concept of "Ishwara Pranidhana" or "Surrender to God" - having the ability to bypass/subdue the ego through surrender to something beyond or greater than what the ego is and "nothing" seems to nullify the whole point of doing that.

These are just my own thoughts and experiences based upon my chosen path..others will have different ones and in no way am I saying this is conclusive ...it is just what I have chosen to believe and follow..

You raise some very good points in your post, Shivani Devi.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

As for "nothingness"...I prefer the term "everything-ness" or even the Buddhist term Tathātā or Such-ness, where everything just is because it is and for no other reason. The terms "nothingness" and "void" just sound too cold, impersonal and off-putting for me personally and would not be conducive with a motive for starting a spiritual practice....especially for a newbie or anybody who has problems doing something just for the sake of doing it..because that usually comes as the result of meditation, rather than being a necessary prerequisite for it.

I am equally comfortable with the term "Everything-ness" or even the Buddhist term translated as "such-ness" and those terms may indeed resonate more with a newbie.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

However, there are many ways of approaching the crux of the Eternal...from Vedanta, to Bhakti Yoga to the Sāṃkhya schools of thought (which I personally subscribe to):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya

The Sāṃkhya school is a strongly dualist one and the main proponent of it was Patanjali who codified Yoga into His Yoga Sutras/Aphorisms which propounded the concept of "Ishwara Pranidhana" or "Surrender to God" - having the ability to bypass/subdue the ego through surrender to something beyond or greater than what the ego is and "nothing" seems to nullify the whole point of doing that.

I agree that there are "many ways of approaching the crux of the Eternal", including Bhakti (devotion to one's personified spiritual ideal). It is my understanding that God manifests in whatever form (or formless) that is most appropriately suited to the devotee/seeker.

Having practiced Pantanjali's Asthanga Yoga for years, your point on Ishwara Pranidana is well taken. The sutras themselves say that, if one can surrender completely as in Ishwara Pranidana, one can skip the remaining six limbs of the Ashtanga Yoga practice. However, I am not quite sure that Pantanjali was a "dualist", as you indicated, since the eighth limb is "samadhi" where one becomes one with the object of meditation which would suggest the cessation of subject/object duality.

In any case, you provide great insights, as usual.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Then, two days ago, I walked by that shop and was stopped dead in my tracks! Hanging up on the back wall of the shop was this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...s12iMxKtkxAzGK

It was a very beautiful Shiva Nataraja wall hanging... brightly painted and with very fine detail work...my chin was hitting the floor.

I have a statue of Shiva Nataraja in my home. I can really relate to what you wrote.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

God created man in his image or was it mankind created God/god/Gods/gods in their image?

Hello BigJohn,

Interesting question. I will try to answer it and go a little bit further than the closed question that you state.

Putting all the books that I have read and what others living beings told me on the side, this comes from what I have experienced (or not experienced) in this life. Of course, it can be taken as a single opinion.

From any side that we take your question each possibility of an answer is relatively true depending of the point of view our rainbow body in being-ness decides to identify to. We do have this ability to identify to different states on being-ness. With it comes identification with a form a duality that I like to call Vortex. Being-ness includes to me a certain form a duality in all levels of our rainbow we come to identify to.

Did mankind create gods?

Of course, they did and do, on many levels. You have meme, egregore, some types of archetypes, paradigm, etc. that are create from mankind and they associate them to gods.

If we just take what represent Money today, it is an egregore to our civilisation. 2000 years ago, and before it was the Power one has over the other, it’s been replaced after by the property one owned with all the servants on it in Aristocracy, and with bourgeoisie it was replaced by the Money one possesses.

Cesar was happy that he controlled, by the presence of his army, all the lives of his kingdom, a bit like the egregore expressed in the book 1984 of you signature. Then the aristocrats where happy to know they had a land that could be exploited from their servants to bring in a rent. Then the bourgeoisie was happy to know how much they have in their bank account.

Just take the 100 richest people in the world today, the own way much Money than half the poorest population will ever own in all their life. There is a concentration of Money in a few hands like it never occurred before. And most humans today admire the way of life of those 100 people. They want to become as rich as they are.

And yet most of the people who adore, and worship Money today call themselves materialist. If they are something, before anything, they are idealist, before being materialist. Being stuck in their ideas, egregore or meme, they even forget the simplest of things, to be aware of their breath.

In the subconscious for some or in the astral for others those forms meme, egregore, or else, created by mankind can be encountered, and one can chose to identify or not to one of those forms of lower gods.

On another level, there is the soul. Did mankind create or not the individual soul?

An interesting question also to ask oneself. From experience I know that I have been for many life’s times on this planet. But was that soul created from my presence on the planet or was it there before. For one thing it’s older than just one lifetime. On the other side, I do not feel it’s eternal. It is not Unborn. It was born at one point. And to what point, this soul as any direct relation with the “I” writing at this moment is not relevant. It’s all relative, it as no meaning to me in my search of what’s Unborn in this world, away from the cycle of life and death. The soul is a form of god or goddess to an individual entity, but its only relative after all in this world. Was it created from this material world or was it the creator of this entity in this world? I find it a waste of time for my monkey mind to try to answer that.

Yet, it is true from my experience, that many and many souls can have a contact with ours in the astral or other plane of existence, no matter the incarnations. Incarnations just give colors to the imagination in the way they will appear to a form of consciousness or the other.

After that they are some gods, goddess, angels no matter the Name, that do not have a human origin, that are out there and which we can make a direct contact. They are not egregore created by humans or meme, they have a consciousness of their own that is way, way older and wiser than that of the human beings.

But are there Unborn? I don’t know, and my monkey mind cannot yet understand their answer each time I ask them if they are Unborn or not. It’s not evolved enough to understand their origin.

Then there is what some call God, the One, the entity behind the sound OM of your avatar, Love, etc.. Of course, it’s there, and it’s not a human creation. It’s been there way before humans where there, and way before a good part of the Universe was there. It can manifest of course in many forms, or not. But is it Unborn? I don’t know and would like to know. But I guess I never will in this life. So, to me this Being-ness is still relative to my experience.

Further than your question, there in this nothingness in which there in non duality. There is no outside, inside, up or down, other or self. I did not find a way to communicate it. But to “me” it is Unborn.

Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello janiele,

Thank you for putting this thread in your signature so I could find it.

Hello Starman,

I deeply resonate from "experience" to what you wrote.

Enjoy!

You’re welcome ! I too enjoy Starman’s ponderings.