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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #31  
Old 24-05-2019, 01:50 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
Science apparently considers consciousness to be ...
Personally I don’t have any problem reconciling scientific thought and scientific evidence with my spiritual beliefs. In fact, I would say that science has been one of my best aids in formulating my spiritual beliefs.
I find it helps to remember that science cannot “consider” anything, nor can it think, accept, attribute, or believe anything. Science is often spoken of as if it is a conscious being or a religious or ideological organization with a dogma or manifesto. This is not too surprising as all too often those engaged in scientific pursuits fall for this line of thinking. Science is a set of generally agreed upon rules and methodology that allows us to discover and agree with some degree of confidence those phenomenon that appear with regularity and predictability in what we think of as our common physical universe. It does not tell us what is real or not real, it only seeks to identify and explain those phenomenon that we generally find to be consistent and therefore valid within the restrictions it prescribes. Beyond those restrictions and rules, it can say nothing, despite the unfortunate fact that all too often those who self label themselves scientists do so. The fact the something is not scientifically proven does not mean it is false, only that science cannot show it to be true. And while I would admit that this is not a scientifically proven theory, my general hypothesis is that what science actually shows us is not what is true or false, real or imaginary, but only where our individual and uniquely created realities overlap in form and function.
If some scientists attribute consciousness only to biological forms, it is only because that is current limit as to what they believe they are able to show using the scientific method. Beyond those limits, they, like the rest of us, are free to hypothesize, speculate, and conjecture on what is and is not conscious. However, if they want to claim their beliefs as science, then they must stay within the rules of the scientific method. Science is not an entity in competition with anything. Scientific theory is just the result of the application of a set of rules for methodical exploration of phenomenon.
While science has not proven the validity of ESP, there are nevertheless many accepted scientific theories and phenomenon that offer clues and insights as to how ESP may work. Quantum entanglement, the implications of relativity on time, the principle of quantum superposition, all offer tantalizing clues to how such a thing as ESP may be possible, and how it may functions.
I think part of the problem is that too many people still think of science as a class they took in high school or as an undergrad that layed out a set of deterministic equations and theories which painted the universe as a giant clock mechanism. That materialist view unraveled over the last 100 years. Modern physics and cosmology offers a far more complex and mystical view of the universe, and for me leaves plenty of direction and room for speculating about the spiritual nature of consciousness that seems to underlay it all.
I think the principal of the spirit and physical form being different degrees of density makes good sense. Matter is just the densification of energy in a particular region of space giving rise to form, and time just that which we experience as we witness the eternal changing nature of these forms and they move along paths of causality which we ourselves guide them. Space, time, and matter are all created from and exist within that which we call spirit or consciousness. Energy is the manifestation or representation of information within consciousness. Information that exists prior to and outside of physicality, information which informs this dance we call reality and Maya and life. A dance created, choreographed, performed, and experienced within our own consciousness.
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  #32  
Old 24-05-2019, 11:13 PM
bartholomew bartholomew is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, WA and in Kherson, Ukraine..
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Interesting. The boundaries of good science are always tentative lest they become dogmatic. This is, I believe, the reason research never stops. It helps also to remember that we are all essential spiritual beings. This is not an aspect that can be quantified so easily, nor set aside. This is another reason research never stops. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Personally I don’t have any problem reconciling scientific thought and scientific evidence with my spiritual beliefs. In fact, I would say that science has been one of my best aids in formulating my spiritual beliefs.
I find it helps to remember that science cannot “consider” anything, nor can it think, accept, attribute, or believe anything. Science is often spoken of as if it is a conscious being or a religious or ideological organization with a dogma or manifesto. This is not too surprising as all too often those engaged in scientific pursuits fall for this line of thinking. Science is a set of generally agreed upon rules and methodology that allows us to discover and agree with some degree of confidence those phenomenon that appear with regularity and predictability in what we think of as our common physical universe. It does not tell us what is real or not real, it only seeks to identify and explain those phenomenon that we generally find to be consistent and therefore valid within the restrictions it prescribes. Beyond those restrictions and rules, it can say nothing, despite the unfortunate fact that all too often those who self label themselves scientists do so. The fact the something is not scientifically proven does not mean it is false, only that science cannot show it to be true. And while I would admit that this is not a scientifically proven theory, my general hypothesis is that what science actually shows us is not what is true or false, real or imaginary, but only where our individual and uniquely created realities overlap in form and function.
If some scientists attribute consciousness only to biological forms, it is only because that is current limit as to what they believe they are able to show using the scientific method. Beyond those limits, they, like the rest of us, are free to hypothesize, speculate, and conjecture on what is and is not conscious. However, if they want to claim their beliefs as science, then they must stay within the rules of the scientific method. Science is not an entity in competition with anything. Scientific theory is just the result of the application of a set of rules for methodical exploration of phenomenon.
While science has not proven the validity of ESP, there are nevertheless many accepted scientific theories and phenomenon that offer clues and insights as to how ESP may work. Quantum entanglement, the implications of relativity on time, the principle of quantum superposition, all offer tantalizing clues to how such a thing as ESP may be possible, and how it may functions.
I think part of the problem is that too many people still think of science as a class they took in high school or as an undergrad that layed out a set of deterministic equations and theories which painted the universe as a giant clock mechanism. That materialist view unraveled over the last 100 years. Modern physics and cosmology offers a far more complex and mystical view of the universe, and for me leaves plenty of direction and room for speculating about the spiritual nature of consciousness that seems to underlay it all.
I think the principal of the spirit and physical form being different degrees of density makes good sense. Matter is just the densification of energy in a particular region of space giving rise to form, and time just that which we experience as we witness the eternal changing nature of these forms and they move along paths of causality which we ourselves guide them. Space, time, and matter are all created from and exist within that which we call spirit or consciousness. Energy is the manifestation or representation of information within consciousness. Information that exists prior to and outside of physicality, information which informs this dance we call reality and Maya and life. A dance created, choreographed, performed, and experienced within our own consciousness.
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