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  #21  
Old 16-04-2019, 08:34 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey
I can only respectfully disagree. Fast food is never the answer, regardless of how many hours one works. There is always a way to get real food, and this goes back to the idea that this isn't about "weight loss". It's about lifestyle...work included, mental health, including things like a sense of fulfillment. But the second anyone ever thinks they HAVE to eat fast food, they have abdicated their personal freedom. And once that happens, weight loss and even just health aren't even up for discussion.

They're not forced to eat only terrible food, or to not exercise. I suppose people in such modern planned cities and landscapes could choose the salad option, go to Subway (already more expensive than the rest), and do push ups and planks every morning. This however will take discipline and if your environment is bombarding you with something else it gets exceedingly hard to leave that norm. It's just harder to accomplish if a civilization is built a certain way..

If this were only about individual responsibility and discipline we wouldn't see these differences between ''western'' countries, as they emphasize individuality. Also, for some people it's easy to say no to a beer or a cigarette in their teenage years, but for a sizeable portion of many societies it is not..
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  #22  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:38 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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"First, I counted my calories every day for a week to roughly determine my maintenance intake," he says. "Then I decreased the calories by a couple hundred to initiate weight loss. I made incremental reductions, only doing so if my weight plateaued too long. If I reduced my calories too drastically, I knew I would suffer and risk giving up," he adds. Once he had the nutritional component locked in, he aimed to work out three or four days a week.

Meanwhile, he stayed patient, knowing the results would come. "It's science. When consuming in a deficit, weight loss will happen," he says. That's a point he makes often when advising other people on how to begin their weight loss progress. If you're struggling and tempted to hire some outside help, he says to look for a reputable, evidence-based coach. "Make sure they use scientific research to inform much of their thinking," he says. "Even today, I suspect the majority of coaches still believe in myths and bro-science."
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:06 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Looking at the whole spectrum of life, starting with oneself, eating doesn't have a lot to do with ones 'spiritualism', and I know there are those who claim that veganism is 'higher evolved' (or something like that), and there are dietary protocols in all the religions: kosher, halal, vegetarianism and so forth, but these are not strategies for body re-composition.

The religious and ethical motives concerning food set up respective frameworks within which a way of eating that results in a lower body fat percentage can be achieved, but regardless of any respective framework, the one and only way body weight can be reduced is consuming fewer calories that you expend.

A calorie is a unit of energy, so when we talk of calories, we are talking about how much energy is taken in by the body and/or how much energy the body burns through activity, and this raises the most basic and most important consideration: what am I eating, and what am I doing?

This brings us to what is called a 'calorie balance' (or 'energy balance'). Calorie balance is, simply: calories in minus calories out. If the sum of these is a negative number, the body becomes lighter in weight over time. If the sum is positive, the body gets heavier.

That's why, where body composition goals are concerned, the foremost consideration is calories (specifically, calorie balance). Not that every strategy for weight loss would involve counting calories. A negative calorie balance can be achieved in less rigourous ways such as portion control, restricting calorie dense foods, intermittent fasting, increasing calorie burning activity and so on - there's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.

The first popular myth is, "calories don't count", when in fact, as far as weight loss alone is concerned, only calories count (in-so-far as a negative calorie balance is essential for losing weight). The second myth is, "Not all calories are the same". In fact, a calorie is a unit of energy and a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. What the quoted is trying to say is, calories come from different nutrients (the macronutrients): protein, carbohydrates and fats. The body processes these nutrients differently, and it goes without saying that not all nutrients are the same. All calories are the same. Nutrients are not the same.

Any person with body re-composition aspirations has to first become conscious of what they are consuming by recording every morsel that goes into their mouth. Not trying to change anything - only taking note of where they are at. There are apps which work very well, and the two I have tested are "My Fitness Pal" and "Cronometer" (I personally prefer "Cronometer"). Either app is excellent for keeping track of food intake, will give you your daily nutrient and calorie goals, and tell you the calories and nutrients of the food you eat.

I hope this clarifies a couple of things, and debunks a couple of nutritional myths.

My basic message amounts to: 1) Calories count and; 2) Use an app to help you become aware what you eat.

Cheers
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  #24  
Old 13-05-2019, 04:04 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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It doesn't seem much 'spiritual', but this is because losing weight comes down to maths: calories in minus calories out. However, as purely technical as it might be, human beings are not robots. We are not exactly rational creatures, thank God.

The physical proportions of fat and lean tissue percentages we discuss here are not isolated from, but are connected with, the psycho-emotional dimensions and motivations of individuals who are integral to interwoven social lives. Thus, the simplicity of weight-loss maths has complex human implications.

We are not dealing with maths in any in any simple fashion, but with human beings' adverse life experiences, traumas, past abuses etc. that underlie behaviours which indicate unhealthy relationships with food. Past trauma is most often caused by adverse social interactions, so obesity also reflects unhealthy social relations. This continues in an individual's life with 'fat shaming', discrimination and socially ostracising and stigmatising people with large statures, while a deeper vulnerability is being protected inside.

The process of shedding fat, therefore, is a more deeply seated recovery which concerns a person as a whole, across their lifespan, including the social/cultural organism of which they are a small but integral part.

Hence, when we say it comes down to 'calories in minus calories out', we should not overlook the enormity of that equation.
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  #25  
Old 13-05-2019, 06:27 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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I guess, what you're saying with your last sentence is that there are subjective reasons for which you can't do what it takes to lose weight, even when you know what you have to do.

I believe that most people don't know that equation.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #26  
Old 19-05-2019, 09:18 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I guess, what you're saying with your last sentence is that there are subjective reasons for which you can't do what it takes to lose weight, even when you know what you have to do.

I believe that most people don't know that equation.




I think the underlying reasons for over-eating are complex and individuaised, but there is also a disfunctional social narrative about nutrition. The truth is successful weight loss requires consuming a calorie deficit sustainably over the long term.


A person with obesity will typically consume 20-30% more calories more than they need to maintain a healthy body fat percentage. It sounds like you would need to consume 20-30% less food, but actually, most people could consume the same volume of food while dropping their calorie intake simply by replacing calorie dense items (high sugar high fat) with nutrient rich/lower calorie alternatives.


The key is to consume relatively high protein because that is most satiating, needs more calories to metabolise and is necessary for maintaining lean muscle while reducing body fat. After a proper pritein target is established, calories can be restricted by reducing carbs, reducing fat, or indeed, reducing both carbs and fat. It is also a good idea to include resistance training to signal the body that it needs to keep the muscle mass it has. People usually say do 'cardio' because that burns more calories, but cardio is not effective in signaling the body to maintain or increase muscle mass.


I see in the world that people do not typically understand these body recomposition adaptions, and are going about things with a 'quick fix' attitude, being sucked in by 'lose weight fast' slogans and 'before and after photo' marketing - which is where all the money is made by misleading vulnerable folk into false hope.


A few of us are telling the truth and we're not selling anything. No juices or supplements, pre-prepared meals, or any particular dietary agenda. True information is saying that reducing body fat percentage necessitates sustaining a lower calorie/higher nutrition eating pattern for the long term - life long.

It don't come 'quick', but it is a sure thing.


There are greater complexes in that mix including both personal and intra-personal aspects, so the simple change I'm talking about in terms of food and activity does have more complicated implications, but these are not insurmountable, and they can all be overcome.
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  #27  
Old 19-05-2019, 07:03 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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A few things that helped me lose weight, and then maintain it:

- eat something every time I feel hungry, which for me is every couple of hours
- write down everything I eat and drink, with its caloric value, so I always know my current calorie intake at any time of the day
- weigh myself every day, at the same time (e.g. morning after working out and showering), and write it down, to see if I'm on track
- do 10-15 minutes dumbbell workout every morning, on an empty stomach, plus warm up and stretches; more recently I added 3 minutes of high intensity interval exercise
- do 20-30 minutes brisk walking most days, in the afternoon
- by keeping track of my calorie intake and my weight, I figured out my daily calorie need to maintain weight: 2,300 calories when I walk, 2,000 when I don't. When I restricted my calorie intake to lose weight I averaged 1,400 calories a day, which resulted in an average weekly loss of 2 lb (about 1 kg), which verified the formula 3,500 calories = 1 lb of fat. I maintained that restriction until I reached my normal weight, which it took about an year. I maintained normal weight for 16+ years

I've attached the graph of my weight loss for the first 9 months. I eventually reached (April 1st 2003), and maintained (16+ years) ~160 lb.
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File Type: gif weight loss .gif (32.5 KB, 2 views)
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #28  
Old 23-05-2019, 05:43 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
A few things that helped me lose weight, and then maintain it:

- eat something every time I feel hungry, which for me is every couple of hours
- write down everything I eat and drink, with its caloric value, so I always know my current calorie intake at any time of the day
- weigh myself every day, at the same time (e.g. morning after working out and showering), and write it down, to see if I'm on track
- do 10-15 minutes dumbbell workout every morning, on an empty stomach, plus warm up and stretches; more recently I added 3 minutes of high intensity interval exercise
- do 20-30 minutes brisk walking most days, in the afternoon
- by keeping track of my calorie intake and my weight, I figured out my daily calorie need to maintain weight: 2,300 calories when I walk, 2,000 when I don't. When I restricted my calorie intake to lose weight I averaged 1,400 calories a day, which resulted in an average weekly loss of 2 lb (about 1 kg), which verified the formula 3,500 calories = 1 lb of fat. I maintained that restriction until I reached my normal weight, which it took about an year. I maintained normal weight for 16+ years

I've attached the graph of my weight loss for the first 9 months. I eventually reached (April 1st 2003), and maintained (16+ years) ~160 lb.




That's very interesting. The calorie restriction looks very severe, but I think it is suitable for someone heading toward 300 lbs, and losing 1% of body weight per week like a safe line, so the initial rate of 2lbs off 290 is well within range. Your maintenance calories must have been dropping as the weight came off, so but I'm not seeing that in the graph curve. I expect rapid loss at the beginning and then a tapering off toward the end. The curve looks like a constant rate, faster toward the end if anything. Incredible loss of 100lbs in a year, which is like 45 kilos - an average of 875 grams a week over the long haul. This seems like a reasonable but aggressive weight cut to me... and your tracking was amazeballs - with, like, graphs and everything! I like the math (because body composition comes down to math), and you're rockin' calculus level.


My approach is to start with becoming conscious of everything eaten, like use the apps I suggest, or in your case, write it down - but know every morsel, so to me, that's how you started out on the right foot.


You managed hunger in a way that worked for you - whereas someone else might thrive on another strategy... but the thing is, you had a hunger regulation strategy, so another part of the success.


I also believe in weighing in every day first thing in the morning, not so you know your weight every day, but so you get a good weekly average and mitigate water weight fluctuations. Your graph shows a trend line, so same effect.


Doing exercise activity is also a good point. I lean toward resistance training more than you do, and less toward cardio, because I consider preserving muscle mass important, but you did some resistance with cardio, which is the optimum combination.


The best thing of all is, you somehow altered your long term eating habits, so you retained a reasonable body composition for the very long term, which will be life long (and developed an amicable relationship with exercise). How did you actually transform your relationship with food from disfunctional to harmonious?
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  #29  
Old 23-05-2019, 07:38 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
That's very interesting. The calorie restriction looks very severe, but I think it is suitable for someone heading toward 300 lbs, and losing 1% of body weight per week like a safe line, so the initial rate of 2lbs off 290 is well within range. Your maintenance calories must have been dropping as the weight came off, so but I'm not seeing that in the graph curve. I expect rapid loss at the beginning and then a tapering off toward the end. The curve looks like a constant rate, faster toward the end if anything. Incredible loss of 100lbs in a year, which is like 45 kilos - an average of 875 grams a week over the long haul. This seems like a reasonable but aggressive weight cut to me... and your tracking was amazeballs - with, like, graphs and everything! I like the math (because body composition comes down to math), and you're rockin' calculus level.


My approach is to start with becoming conscious of everything eaten, like use the apps I suggest, or in your case, write it down - but know every morsel, so to me, that's how you started out on the right foot.


You managed hunger in a way that worked for you - whereas someone else might thrive on another strategy... but the thing is, you had a hunger regulation strategy, so another part of the success.


I also believe in weighing in every day first thing in the morning, not so you know your weight every day, but so you get a good weekly average and mitigate water weight fluctuations. Your graph shows a trend line, so same effect.


Doing exercise activity is also a good point. I lean toward resistance training more than you do, and less toward cardio, because I consider preserving muscle mass important, but you did some resistance with cardio, which is the optimum combination.


The best thing of all is, you somehow altered your long term eating habits, so you retained a reasonable body composition for the very long term, which will be life long (and developed an amicable relationship with exercise). How did you actually transform your relationship with food from disfunctional to harmonious?

Answering your questions ...

Daily dumbbells and walking were / are a significant factor in my calorie spending, and that is the reason that my body weight didn't factor that much in the calorie balance over the weight loss period. When I started the weight loss my break even calorie level was about 2,400. Today, 17 years older, and ~135 lb lighter, is about $2,300, while having pretty much the same activity type.

I don't do that much weight training, but I do it every single day, so it adds up, and I rotate weekly through all the muscle groups.

Much of my life I tried all kind of diets and gimmicks, occasionally, for short periods of time, successful (Atkins), but I always bounced back up, often higher. When I approached 300 lb, my wife got worried and pushed me to see a doctor, who found high blood pressure and high cholesterol, wrote me prescriptions, and sent me to a dietitian. The dietitian didn't help at all.

Coincidentally, around that time, I found on the internet the free e-book "The Hacker Diet" written by John Walker, that explained clearly the calorie balance principle.

Then, about the same time I found Jorge Cruise's book "8 Minutes in the Morning", its 1st edition, while browsing at Costco, which similarly relied on calorie balancing, and gave me a simple, easy to follow, method of counting calories, and a simple, easy to follow, exercise regimen. I still do those exercise daily (it is about the 260th time I go through the book's 24 day cycle).

Doing daily weighing, I noticed that the salt amount in the food is immediately reflected in the body's water holding; a couple of pounds after a Chinese dinner, that are lost over 2-3 days of normal salt intake.

I also noticed that around the break-even calorie level, if I take in a little more, the next day my weight may jump up more than the calorie difference could justify (half to one pound). Same if after a period of slight overeating I have a day of under eating, my weight falls down more that the calorie difference justifies. I guess this happens because of my body's inertia in changing its operating mode, function of the calorie equilibrium.

By the way, after a few months of weight loss I got off both medications, blood pressure and cholesterol, and never went back. My doctor was amazed, and asked me to write down what I did, to share it with other patients.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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